Oxygen on routed 3 lane track, How do i get lane changing and analog to work Options

[Jaak]

Hi,

I am working on an 3 lane routed track that should be analog and digital compatible

What do i need to change lanes?
will a peco pl10e work with Oxygen lane controller?
...

More questions will follow..

[Jaak]

Ok let me put it this way..

What electronic lane change "system/Device" can i use to operate the flippers and will work with Oxygen on a routed track?

[stoner]

hy Jaak, i,m not an electronics techie, but theres some guys on the forum who make the routed digital system. get in touch with them. they should have exactly what you want. john

[Jaak]

Hey,

I think you mean David from BLST,
am in contact with him and he will make the track but it will be a standard Digital track not an BLST.
Want to keep the possibility of having 3 analog lanes to race analog.

I wan't to use Oxygen but i am not sure what lane changers it can use and neither is David at the moment,
Maurizio had told him a while ago that he was not sure it would work with his normal changers so i am trying to find out what i can use to power the flippers that Oxygen supports.
I need to be sure that the ones i choose will work ofcourse.

[Ember]

I could be misunderstanding things but I thought Oxygen was supposed to have it's own lane change electronics. Isn't it supposed to be a self contained system?

[Jaak]

Hey Lynne,

If that is the case i will need to choose a different system.

[MrFlippant]

I'm pretty sure that the oXigen LC electronics will be able to power a Pico turnout solenoid like the ones Rick recommends for Scorpius.

[Jaak]

I thought so too,

just can't find anything about it now, hope to be able to use Slot It Oxygen and keep analog next to it.

[Slot.it]

Yes we have our own LC electronics. The driver can withstand 4A and drives the solenoid for either 150mS (Ninco) or 50 (Carrera). The board can work as a slave i.e. you can use it as a stand-alone driver too under external control. Please refer to the manual, page 4 if you want it to be driven by external devices.

[Jaak]

Thank you Maurizio for the reply,


I did not buy they equipment yet as i first wan't to know if i can use Analog next to Oxygen on a routed track.
So i have no manual of the device in question.

If it can drive Peco point turnout motors it means i can make my track with Oxygen.

I understand that the lane changers need to stand in there open position and that there should not be any contact with one lane or the other to prevent short circuit.

So from what i can gather i can make the Analog - Digital in one track.


Please anybody with electrical know how prove me wrong if i am before i start.

[MrFlippant]

The only thing I'm not sure of is if the oXigen LC board will provide power to the flipper at all. Long flippers without power can be a great annoyance to analog racers.

[Jaak]

If they need to be powered separately that would not be an deal breaker,
got a good amount of old adapters laying around in different voltages and amps.

[MrFlippant]

No, I mean the flippers themselves (not the mechanism), to provide power to the cars as they are passed over. This cannot be done separately, but must be controlled by the lane change electronics because of polarity. There are other ways of powering the flippers, also called "livening" the flippers, but it's best when the LC electronics can handle it.

[Slot.it]

LC drivers do not provide live flipper drivers, but in my opinion there's a simpler and cheaper alternative.

It was discussed in this thread

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?...c=63154&hl=

and this is the bulk of what I posted. It works from the little experiment that I did.

-------
Don't try this at home.

Ah! I had not come across that thread before, Riko, really!
Good point about the short caused by braids - I did not think about it.
Like Richard said, we don't have to deal with data, which makes things easier for us. This idea comes from Maurizio G., the other half of Slot.it.

In any case, to recap for the readers, consider two facts:
1 - the purpose of livening the flipper is to avoid getting trapped in a dead spot. It does not really matter having full voltage: 6V is more than sufficient to move the car quickly to a 'normal' area. The difference is unnoticeable.
2 - if the flipper is kept at 6V, then:
case 1: it works as +, when the right braid is on the flipper and the left braid is grounded, OR
case 2: it works as ground, when the left braid is on the flipper and the right braid is at +12. 12V-6V=6V
hence the voltage across the motor is always 6V.

Most power supplies however can only 'source' current, not 'sink'. In other words: suppose you have a 12V power supply, and a 6V one. In case 1, everything is OK, in case 2, in general the 6V on the flipper jumps to 12V as soon as the car goes across: a normal power supply is a generator, and cannot work as a load, sinking current.. How to solve? Actually, we'd need a 'ideal' voltage generator, capable of sourcing and sinking. So, two options:

A ) in principle, use a 6V battery, connected to the flipper. Ground must be the same as the track of course. I've tried briefly tried with 4 AAA rechargeable cells and it seems to work ... Anyone thinking about using a lead acid battery, or a LiPo, please don't: Riko pointed out the fact that braids can cause a short. You don't want to short a battery, do you? yikes.gif AAA NiMh rechargeables seem safe enough to do some testing. We haven't researched into this extensively yet, but we may.

B ) use a 6V power supply, with a load resistor (for example, 10 Ohm, 4W) across + and - of said supply. This way, the 6V tap will 'sink' up to 600mA (with the example value of 10 Ohm resistor) without trouble. More than that, and it will drift again towards 12V, getting closer to 12V the higher the current request on the 12V side, up to a maximum of 1.2A. In our lab, we have a beefy dual power supply with current limiting, so we can experiment safely. In case of short across the 12V and 6V rails, the worst case is that the 12V output gets to source 1.2A continuously (0.600 mA from the ballast resistor * 2). So, when the braid shorts the two 'live' rails, a 1.2A current will flow though it. On the other hand, the 6V power supply can be shorted straight to ground - hence the power supply's max current output will be given out - hence it is advisable to use a power supply with good current limiting.

I hope this makes sense it the limited time that I have today. Now, all of this is of course not intended to set you in motion and start experimenting and blowing your house up, but I think the principle should be clear enough to be debated.

Regards
Maurizio

[Jaak]

Thanks Maurizio,

I knew i was here before..memory sucks as much as my ability to make a decision on what "route" to go.

I have a question,
Can one of the Ninco/Carrera drive a Peko PL10e and work with a Scalextric APB?