Recent car activities, buys, builds, mods, events, etc... Options

[BEEJAY7]

My latest purchase and my favorite rally car. Much better now the driver has period helmet, co-driver added with pace notes, "blue" lights removed, weight added and rear tyres replaced with Ortmans...





Regards

Alan

[FenderBender]

highbarn - haven't seen one to date, but there may be one or two in the March event. I'll check it out.
I know that the NSR Clio caused a bit of a storm when it came out - a matter of scale if I remember rightly, although they faired well in the SuperN group.

[highbarn]

FB - The Porsche is a much better model of the actual car, even if they had to resort to the RSR version. I've even heard of some guys using a Spirit 405 in the SuperN class.

Can you point me in the right direction for a set of rules for the various classes in English.

[FenderBender]

Here goes ......

A set of rules in English? Well, I'll translate and summarise.

For rallying in Spain there are basically 4 main groups .....

GROUP WRC - here you are looking at specially prepared chassis (MSC, PKS and the like, or homemade) with very light carbon fibre shells. Transmission is not limited to any particular type (in-line, sidewinder or anglewinder). Basically this is an 'anything goes' category, although there is a limit on the motor's magnet (so that people don't tamper, cos' they would if they could!!)

GROUP A/K - as the previous but with in-line transmission only. Group A is traction on all four wheels whereas Group K is rear traction only. Again lightweight shells and special chassis but must be a commercial chassis - no homemade stuff here!

Group N - basically out-of-the-box standard issues - must be rally, must have the supplementary magnet removed, must have original motor and original gear ratio, can change tyres, rims, braids, bushings but that's all. The Ninco C4 is about the best at the moment. Often we could have a rally with say 60 Group Ns and 59 of them would be C4s!!

Two sub-groups of Group N are the 1600 and the Classics - but these are just based on the type of car and follow the Group N rules.

GROUP SUPER N - this group came into being round about the time the NSR Clio hit the streets. It was literally a superfast Group N but it had an anglewinder setup, and so had to go into another group. Since then other anglewinder rally cars are in this group - Ninco 997, Avant Slot Pug .....

Of course in a typical rally the fastest cars should be the WRC, followed by Groups A and K (in an asphalt rally there's actually little difference between A and K, but in a dirt rally the Ks struggle). Next come the Super Ns and lastly the Ns. Then it's down to skill - often Super Ns can be up there with the 'prepared' groups.

Hope that clears things up!

FB

[driver#8]

I've completed my slot rally set in the past few days, using the excellent Slot Rally GB guidelines on breaking cars up by class, which works brilliantly IMHO. As a result I've now got a few bits of buiding and painting to do but it goes like this:

Classic - SCX Fiat 131 (Coches Miticos one, the Markku Alen Alitalia livery)

1980s - Scalextric Ferrari 308 GTB Markula (makes a change from SCX Lancias or the Fly Quattro!)

Super 1600 - Ninco Punto (got a good deal on the Catalunya '03 edition, will take bit of tuning I think)

Modern - Ninco Pegeot 307 WRC (I know it was rubbish in real life but I liked it, especially in red!)

Pro - SCX Citroen Xsara WRC (I'm reliverying this one as Petter Solberg's 2009 car because he's a top bloke)

Pro - Avant Slot Peugeot 207 (because it is an IRC champion, and it looks like the real car - unlike the NSR Punto)

Modified - Fly Alfa Romeo 147 Gp.A (It's different, the 147 is lovely. Repainting, lexan interior, removing front splitter and Slot.It gears are going in)

Hopefully that's enough variety in terms of motors and layouts not to get bored while attempting to master them! No Scaley front-biased 4WD cars as yet, but when I've got more funds some Skodas will be the priority!

I've been tinkering with the livery for my Alfa, which I hope Graymalkin would approve of. I'm planning on doing the bodywork in black, all sponsor logos in red or white, with my bonnet babe being Caterina Murino, star of Zen...





What do you think? Italian enough?!!

[highbarn]

FenderBender - Thanks for taking the time to translate those rules - really interesting. I've seen those super-trick chassis but didn't realise they had special bodies as well.

So if I've got this right - a stock MSC RS200 would go into Group N but an MSC RS200 modified with the MSC Anglewinder chassis would go into WRC not SuperN?

[FenderBender]

I'll have to check that one out! But (and I haven't seen them yet) the RS200 with an in-line setup should qualify for GroupN but with anglewinder it would be SuperN rather than WRC. Having said that, a drop-arm guide would take even the RS200 in-line into the SuperN class. Forgot to mention the drop-arm issue in the previous post

When new models come out we often have to 'improvise'. The idea of the classes is obviously to make sure the cars have a fairly similar setup and can therefore compete on equal terms. If you compare, for example, a Ninco C4 and an Avant Slot 207 you can see how one is a firm Group N candidate whilst the other is a few notches above it in terms of preparation. With the Ninco 997, which appeared to be in a kind of middle-ground between groups, we opted for SuperN due to its anglewinder setup despite it having a 'normal' plastic shell and standard guide.

I remember the Fly Racing Porsche when it appeared - it would have been untouchable in Group N but its lightweight shell gave it an unfair advantage over the heavier plastic shell cars, at least in 'asphalt'. So, into Super N. Now we have a dilemma with the Avant Slot Alpine - we don't have a SuperN Classic group!!

Really the WRC models have to be seen to be believed - they are basically chassis as they only have about 5gr of shell on top. They are incredibly fast at full speed but are quick to brake and accelerate (so for rally tracks are ideal). They stick like glue to the track - the effect from the motor's magnet with so little weight is obviously decisive. As I said, the transmission is 'free' - the homemade chassis guys tending to opt for a rear-mounted motor between the rear wheels, pinion traction up front and rubber bands to the rear. Some even have the rear wheels ever so slightly angled (like F1?) and I have seen attempts at incorporating an adjustable 'diferential-type setup' on the rear wheels! Don't ask me how they managed it as I'm not that techno - but when you get guys counting the number of left-hand or right-hand curves on a track before they start tweeking - you know that you're better off in Group N!!!!!

[highbarn]

Amazing stuff!

On the RS200 question neither the standard nor modified cars have a drop arm (the ones supplied with the Universal chassis are too long) but you do need a new narrow crown gear to get the wheels and tyres within the body.

Do you believe the C4 advantage comes from it's wheelbase and larger wheels? I've got a Lightning version of the C4 than can't touch the standard because of the wheel/tyre size.

[FenderBender]

Ah, well in that case ...... I'm stumped as far as the RS200 goes - I can check with those in the know at the club and get back to you.

With the C4 the key factor so I'm told is the distance between the guide and the rear axle! It's predecessor and an also unbeatable rally car was the Ninco Subaru but if you compare them from underneath (lining up the rear axles) you will see that the C4's wheelbase is a touch longer and the guide is about 1.5mm further to the front. And that's about it really.
(This 'guide to rear axle length' factor is also important in the WRC and A/K groups and most people try to increase it as much as they can - the top limit is about 105mm but only because the longest carbon fibre shell is that of a Toyota Celica, such as GOM produced in the past)

The Ninco Subaru was the car to have in Group N having taken over from the 307 (which in turn ousted the SCX Focus and Cordoba - now I'm going back a bit!). But as soon as the C4 appeared people switched over. Well, let's get it right! The top drivers switched over and everyone else followed suit. The other contender was the Ninco Focus but for some reason it didn't catch on the same way as the Subaru or C4.

As for wheelsize, the standard models from Ninco alll have hubs that need chucking out, at least for competing. And of course they are too big - we normally use 15.9 x 8.5 plastic (like the Slot.It ones) or Sloting Plus if you feel like splashing out. I think standard Nincos are probably about 17mm.

Curious what you say about the C4 lightning - I imagine it has smaller wheels than the standard, and so should be better!
I don't know what else Ninco have done to make the C4 lightning 'better' than the standard issue but I know some guys who think the whole 'lightning' and/or ProRace stuff is a bit of a con. I think in the past one of the ProRace differences was a stronger motor. On tracks which are designed for rallying (twisty, short straights etc) a stronger motor can actually be the worst upgrade you can do.

This would be how most people set up their C4s over here:

- Keep the original NC5 motor but you may prefer to change pinion and crown for Slot.It equivalents.

- Change the hubs for the ones I mentioned - fit slim low profile tyres up front and Slot.It P3 or P4 at the rear.

- The red rubber band seems to be more popular than the black one. It's a tad shorter so it may help in braking?

- Sand down the guide to make it razor thin and shave off 1mm from the bottom - no chance of getting stuck anywhere.

- You can also play with the suspension arms - softer at the front, stronger at the rear usually.

- Change the screws for Ninco metrics and leave some play between shell and chassis (you will need to force the shell a bit so that the chassis wobbles without hinderance - AND this is forbidden as 'the shell cannot be modified in any way' BUT everybody does it!!!)

Maybe you have some tips for the C4 I haven't included. Hope this helps.

FB

[milly]

Great stuff Fenderbender and thanks for translating the rules, I to have often wondered what was going on.

[FenderBender]

Cheers Milly!

Of course, I just summarised and there's a lot more to it - but anyway.

highbarn - sorted out the RS200 issue! They would have to go into a Classics group! There's a rule which states that all models which participate in Group N or Group Super N have to be (and I quote - albeit in translation - directly from Spanish) "replicas in 1/32 scale of real cars which have participated in rallies under FIA rules since 1998". The RS200 and also the Metro were before that date and so go to the classics group which has the same rule but states "before 1998". These rules are not just the ones of my club but are devised by members from all the slot clubs in this part of the world.

At the moment the only Classics we use are SCX ones - so the MSC models would not be able to compete anyway - and this is in our Freaky Races - that is, races which are monomarque events and take place at different clubs during the year. 'Freaky' because they're a bit different from the norm I suppose, and also because there about 35 blokes who are willing to travel the length and breadth of Catalonia just to play with a Seat Fura!!

And this year - to avoid confusion perhaps - we are running an Avant Slot Rally Cup (207s, Mitsus and Subarus) and a parallel Avant Slot Classic Rally Cup just for the Alpine A310.

FB

[highbarn]

FB

Wow you're going to be busy with all those one car series!!

The MSC cars give Avant Slot a real run for their money but the quality is not as good. The lack of a drop arm doesn't seem to affect them but then I don't have access to some of the extreme tracks you run.

[rallyP]

FB

Wow you're going to be busy with all those one car series!!

The MSC cars give Avant Slot a real run for their money but the quality is not as good. The lack of a drop arm doesn't seem to affect them but then I don't have access to some of the extreme tracks you run.

I am curious in what aspect are the MSC cars not of the same quality as the Avant Slot?

[FenderBender]

highbarn - yes, the whole drop arm affair (which was initially borrowed from the off road stuff which needed to get over obstacles etc) is not a key factor really as a lot of models from various manufacturers incorporate some vertical play in the guide. I think the best ones are the spring loaded guides (as the Nincos), the SCX system works fine but is not a long-lasting system as those little prongs tend to get bent - they are also quite a problem on dirt tracks for obvious reasons.

As I said, if our tracks are too 'extreme' for a C4 then we need to change the layout. The tracks have to be rally tracks but they also have to be raceable rally tracks.

On a side note, our March rally is coming along fine and soon I will be posting some images.

FB

[highbarn]

I am curious in what aspect are the MSC cars not of the same quality as the Avant Slot?

I've got the RS200, a 6R4 and an MSC Universal Chassis. I find the plastic used for the frames is brittle so you have to careful when tightening the numerous countersink screws or the frame will crack. The 4wd pulleys are plastic with grub screws, which is not a problem except that the pulley is so thin that it deforms as you screw the grub screw in. The Universal chassis comes with 3 drop arms and a fixed guide but none of the cars I've tried to fit it to will take even the shortest drop arm. A shell with a long nose will probably work.

The build quality of the RS200 was good and the car very smooth to run but the 6R4 was poor - 2 wheels were loose on the axles and one well out of round, so much so that I swapped them for alloys. The worst thing on the 6R4 was the rear body mounting point, which is poorly connected and was loose on my car. I also think the front mounts are not square with the body, which skews the chassis so that one rear wheel is not central in the wheel arch. It may well be that I had someone with 2 left hands assemble mine and they forced things a bit too much. In its defense, after the problems were sorted the car runs as smooth as the RS200.

highbarn - yes, the whole drop arm affair (which was initially borrowed from the off road stuff which needed to get over obstacles etc) is not a key factor really as a lot of models from various manufacturers incorporate some vertical play in the guide. I think the best ones are the spring loaded guides (as the Nincos), the SCX system works fine but is not a long-lasting system as those little prongs tend to get bent - they are also quite a problem on dirt tracks for obvious reasons.

As I said, if our tracks are too 'extreme' for a C4 then we need to change the layout. The tracks have to be rally tracks but they also have to be raceable rally tracks.

On a side note, our March rally is coming along fine and soon I will be posting some images.

I agree, everything I've tried with a drop arm usually runs just as well with it locked up. Look forward to seeing those images.