Crash and Burn?, How do you race club and home? Options

[Tropi]

Mr Mat

when a new person comes along to a club that marshalls, or plays magic cranes as I like to call it, they will be down several laps to the top boys by the end of the first race. Is that not just as off putting to that potential new member?

No, I don't think it is. At least they get to run the length of the heat or the race and that's track time that they can both enjoy AND benefit their driving skills. A far cry from sitting on the sidelines watching the rest still having fun. The difference is between being crap and having fun and being crap and not having fun!

Scott
Either you are naturally a good driver or lucky or perhaps both!
In which case, you will naturally not feel the same pain as the poor crashed and burnt boys! So it will be difficult for you to empathise with them.

Running marshalled races has often been suggested at our place, but the guys that run the joint are the guys who tend to be the winners and it is in their personal interest to maintain their status quo. Almost impossible to engender change in these circumstances. As I Improve (and I am!) I may even become one of them, but I hope not.

I won't belabour the point much more but just cite an example;

Say 16 guys turn up
Then each race will be 4 heats with each driver taking turns in all 4 lanes
Each heat winner goes to the final, which also rotates all 4 finalist over all 4 lanes

We usually run four such races in the course of an afternoon/evening, taking around 4 hours total.
If a guy comes off early in two of his 4 lane-heats he is effectively finished for that entire race. He could have raced for as little as 30 seconds, or even less, for that entire race! A relatively poor driver could spend as little as 2-3 minutes of actual racing in an entire afternoons racing of four hours. That is just NOT fun and it happens. And they leave. So we rarely get 16 drivers. Not good. Sermon over . . . until next time

[GRAH1]

As an alternative to crash and burn we tried crash and dash which means you put your own car back on ,Total mayhem but what a laugh ,keeps you fit too.

But seriously crash and burn in any format is bad ,marshalled races are by far better
Graham

[jonny s]

I think Jamie has hit on the main point. New members need to be helped to retain their interest. Doesn`t really matter which system you use, the point is to get new racers competitive as soon as possible with help from the senior members. Crash and burn is very exciting but we prefer to marshal the cars back on. It`s not good value for money to have a series of very short races when you have traveled a long way to a club night but it must be nice not having to keep asking for marshals at the start of evry race.

My one main experience of crash and burn was during the making of `Short Circuits`. It made the racing very exciting and tense and the atmosphere was electric. We used it for a season at the club for just one magnet classs but it has now been voted out, as has the one surviving magnet class.

[jonny s]

Just read what Tropi posted and he is bang on!

[Turismo]

Crash and Burn is a bit harsh, even the best racers can make a small mistake or get taken out by someone else.
We do race it sometimes but usually just every now and the for something different. Funny thing about it is the lap times generally drop as people try harder to stay on.
We also race self marshalling sometimes if there's only three or four of us after the main races, the ettiquette there is pretty good and we usually pull up and wait.

[JEXY1]

Thanks for all the interest!

Makes a change from banging (no pun intended) on abbout digital!!

It might help my specific request if i explain a little more regarding the racing i am proposing and to be honest what i'm used to.

I race crash and burn (to be honest i have never been in a race where it has been anything else) and like Jamie was crap when i started, but over a year or so steadily got better (still not as good as Mr Material!!!). Crash and burn does keep you on your toes.

However:

The championship i will be running will have approx. 5 cars to run and races must be on a min of 10 laps.

At Farnham we normally get approx. 10 member each night. 4 Lane Ninco track and a cheap bar downstairs!! We start racing at 8pm ish and normally have 8 classes (cars) we race crash and burn. All being well we normally finish at approx. 10.45pm (which just gets us to the bar in time!) but this is pretty tight.

My reason for stating the above is that i'm not sure if clubs will have the time to run anything but crash and burn?

Would your club be put off competing in a championship if it was crash and burn?

Thanks

Gareth

[Mecoprop]

Sorry, but I'm another that LOATHES crash and burn for all the reasons already stated. It barely even saves on marshalling requirements, as the crashed cars really need to be taken off so as not to impede the others, though an even more extreme case would be to leave them on and tough **it to anyone who is blocked!

If time is a problem, I would FAR rather run fewer races, organized so that
everyone gets equal track time, regardless of skill.

Of course the best drivers with the best cars deserve to win.
But they most certainly do NOT need the odds pre-stacked in their favor, which crash and burn largely ensures because newbies are inarguably MUCH more likely to deslot.
I see nothing in its favor whatsoever.

[Turismo]

We alternate classes weekly.
We are soon to start a Grand Championship that will cover four classes.

Touring
Rally
GT/Le Mans
Sport - camaro's, mustang's, anything that laps our circuit 4 secs and under.

We will race two rounds per week making a five round series last 10 weeks. If this works well we will possibly extend the next series to ten rounds.
Entry will be $5.00 per night. Points will be pooled together from each championship onto a leader board.
The 'grand champ' over all winner that is will win something like the limited edition fly team box set.
So, to keep the comp close and we always have enough marshals we won't be racing 'crash and burn'.

[wixwacing]

Hi Jexy.
It's my view that when a person has paid for an evenings entertainment then he should be entitled to as much entertainment as others who have also paid the same amount! When I go to the movies I don't expect to be shown the door at some juncture before the end because of a coughing fit or other problem that some of the patrons may disagree with!

The crash and burn style of racing is a twofold myth. Firstly it is mostly supported by the 5% of racers that have enough guile to stay on at a steady jog (hardly edge of the seat racing)! Secondly it seems that this rule is pulled out when there is an apparent shortage of marshalls.

It would be interesting in the first instant to know what the average turnout at the average club track is. If clubs are racing with six or seven or eight people on 4 or 6 lane tracks it then seems to me that if you're short of marshalls then maybe reducing the field would be the way to go . It isn't compulsory to use ALL six lanes every time!

Another solution we have used for happy hours (informal gatherings) where there may be only 6 or 7 people, was to construct a series of foot switches connected in series to the relays that work the track power. When someone deslotted, they could press their footswitch and cut the track power, after the marshall, they counted down 3, 2, 1 and repressed their switch and on comes the power again. At times it can be a bit stop start but in general you can get a few good laps in between power offs. I got this idea originally after watching a 1/24 class race in a commercial slot car establishment where the power was controlled by a single marshall.

The guys I race with in South East Queensland all support marshalled races. We have an average of 10+ people turn up regularly with 12 to 14 not being unusual and on the odd occaision the numbers have been up to 18 people. The main tracks we use have been laid out to give the maximum amount of coverage by the minimum amount of marshalls so we don't have a marshalling problem. The average marshall requirements are 4 per 4 lane track. One marshall usually covers more than one bend.

If we were to run crash and burn I know we would see a dramatic drop in turn out. You best bet is to promote marshalled races and don't let the prima donnas hold your club attendance to ransom

Wixwacing

[jonny s]

I am honestly surprised by the amount who race crash and burn. Notice the 3% so far that do something else different. What`s that then?

[Fergy]

Notice the 3% so far that do something else different. What`s that then?

You don't want to know.... I hear it's like strip poker....

[jonny s]

Shudders! I hear that Int and rr9 get the sheep to put them back on (but only once the sheep get their back legs outa those wellies). I`ll fetch me coat....

[Fergy]

I've always been involved in a club that had enough racers to run a marshalled format. We had the fortune to have typical entries of anywhere from 12 to 24 drivers, on a 4 lane track. The marshalled format made sense.

But I've since heard of a variety of Crash and Burn styles that don't seem bad at all. I believe Iceman and NoisyMuse could shed some light on the format they use in the Seattle area, but I think it revolves around having something like 3, 4, or 5 times as many heats as there are lanes (4), so everyone runs every lane 3, 4, or 5 times. Heats are reasonably short, say 1 minute or so. Yes, crash and you're out of the heat, but there are many more heats! Each heat awards points for position plus laps completed. This doesn't favour the top guys as much you might think because they need to push hard to beat each other - sometimes, the slower guy who hangs back just a little can take a podium finish by not getting caught up in the frontrunners' fight. And even the worst drivers get at least 12, 16, or 20 chances to run full heats! Doesn't sound like a truly bad system to me.

[Intergrali]

*Put's on builders boot with steel toe cap and swings leg at crotch height at JonnyS*

Try racing crash and dash at our place and the winner will be the guy without a headache or being consious!!

Rob.

[jonny s]

Ouch!! But taken with a knowing smile that I know what i`m talking about! Take a tip from an old vet mate, seen that method of attack go badly wrong. Will tell you all over a beer one day when you are legal, suffice,young squaddie, Hamburg, Big fight, bouncer,no effect and in the sh***!


Here`s a question then. How many offs average per driver per race? At Phoenix I reckon it`s one per racer per race.