Scratchbuilding in 1/43., A discussion thread. Options

[Lloyd.L]

There has been some discussion in other threads about scratchbuilding in 1/43, and the suggestion that such discussion should have it's own thread, so here it is!

I would like to put up some thoughts about where 1/43 is now and what the future holds:

As some may know, the ISP43 proxy series is being run this year, specifically for brass chassis 1/43 cars, and I am happy to be building a couple of cars to enter.
I started off on brass chassis cars as a teenager in the 60s, and brass and other metal chassis have been long established as the way to go in serious competition in the larger scales. I like building in brass, but I am playing devils advocate here in asking whether brass or plastic chassis would be quickest given the motor sizes currently used in 1/43 and the possible consequences of the extra weight that may be involved.

I put forward the suggestion that, given the relatively early stage 1/43 competition is at compared to other scales, that the chassis type be left open in proxys and may the quickest chassis win. I am not sure if there are enough people prepared to make brass chassis car to make a purely brass proxy viable, I hope you all prove me wrong!

On a similar topic, motors. I have just referred to the usually accepted motors in the scale, mainly the Go/Compact/Radioshack size. I use these because I like to build models with clear windows and as full as possible interiors. I know that the old Artins and the new Dslots use larger motors that prevent me putting in such detail, so I, personally, will not be going down that route for my scratchbuilds, although I do see the practicality of Dslot series and would participate in them if they were run.

There have already been many 1/43 proxy races over the years, catering for many different classes and genre of racing and long may they continue. There is room for all types of racing in the scale, and even rallying, but I dont know if anybody else does it! But where else do we go from here?

Ok, the floor is yours, what do you want to say?

All the best, Lloyd

[Julian_Boolean]

I'd like to build a 1:43 car out of an Artin Stratos shell that I've got, but the lack of sensibly priced wheels in the UK makes it a non starter.

[Lloyd.L]

Depends what you want to do with it Julian, since I put my Carrera Go track up for test purposes I have found that I can get some decent laps out of standard Artin cars and remotored Artin chassis, all using Artin wheels and tyres. For proxy racing it is best to use turned wheels, but for home use it is not so important. It is interesting to see just what can be done with basic eqipment before going out and spending much money.

Of interest, I am checking out a possible source of smaller sized wheels locally. I do use the excellent RD wheels, but they are larger diameter than I need for a lot of my rally cars.

All the best, Lloyd

PS, I have moulded an accurate Stratos if you want to have ago at building a resin bodied car.

[Julian_Boolean]

You'll be telling me you've got a resin Opel Manta next......

The wheels is more about looks than grip, I can use some of the smaller size scalextric wheels from the 70s for the rears of the Stratos (it's a gp.5 sportscar BTW) and get good grip but I can't find fronts that look right, closest I've found is Matchbox powertrak rears.

[Lloyd.L]

No Mantas I'm afraid, mainly 62 to 72 rally cars with a few later ones, there are 40 in total, but just bare shells that need work to finish. I dont do them as a business but do supply the odd one if anyone wants any. I will pm you the list so far.

Regards, Lloyd

[Tsooko]

Lloyd
I applaud you for starting this thread
I look forward to a lively discussion and learning something about building model racing cars.

There has been some discussion in other threads about scratchbuilding in 1/43, and the suggestion that such discussion should have it's own thread, so here it is!

As some may know, the ISP43 proxy series is being run this year, specifically for brass chassis 1/43 cars, and I am happy to be building a couple of cars to enter.
All the best, Lloyd

Please, a small correction. The ISP43 is open to all chassis types that are scratchbuilt. Styrene, Wood, Abs or other commonly available materials will not be excluded. Things like Carbon fiber, stainless steel or other exotic materials are not in the spirit of the proxy, nor are the use of cnc's, lasers, edm machines and such.
Basically what you can do at home with common tools.
That closes the door on an interest of mine in carbon fiber and the use of my cnc router. Oh well!

OK! I have two brass and wire chassis built and am working on more. Getting parts can be a problem. Here are some places I have gone to for the motors, gears, wheels. tires and bodies.

Slot Car Express
Ranch Design
American Slot Car World
http://derbycityspeedway.com/mtracingresins.html Motors here, scroll to the bottom of the page

Lee Gilbert. For foam tires mounted on aluminum wheels
There are also places like
Mid-America Raceways and Pacific Slotcar Raceways. These guys cater to 1/24 and 1/32 scratchbuilders but many of the pieces can be used in 1/43

It can get complicated and expensive but doesn't have to be.

The chassis I've built are
#1) a copy of Fl Slotter's build shown on SCI and my video here
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61869 post # 3
This was a simple build and runs well.
#2) is a variation of that chassis, made wider to take advantage of the 2' width rule for the ISP43 proxy. It runs better but has a bigger faster motor.

These are wire frames with brass parts. Rattle pans or bat wings for weight transfer and body mounting. Lexan bodies. Held on with pins in body mounting tubes, Retro style.

I am currently working on a brass pan chassis for hardbodies ( resin casts )
So far I'm thinking to use vertical tubes with screws to hold the body on to the chassis unless I can figure out a different way to mount the body that is better.

What I need to do is figure out how light a chassis can be and if that weight, or lack of it, is an advantage or not. I am thinking that a certain amount of weight will help traction in a straight line but don't know if it will help around corners. So if I drill holes in the bat wings to lighten them will I still get the weight transfer I want to be able to dive deeper into corners without de-slotting?

Racing has been described as a series of drag strips connected by corners. The guy who is going to be first is the guy who makes it down the straights in the least amount of time. So if you are faster out of that corner you are going to win. Carrying speed around them can only help. Slow in, fast out. But if you can get in deeper in the corner, you have just decreasted the time you have to be on the brakes scrubbing off speed. That momentum will add to the " fast out".
So it makes sense that a lighter car will be faster. It simply will accelerate quicker. The only way to get around a heavier car is to add " Power "
And where do you get 1/43 motors that have power at a tiny size that will fit under some of the car bodies we love so much?
Who says slot cars can't be fun and call them a "kids" toy.
'nuff for now!

Ted

[Lloyd.L]

Sorry Ted, I was getting myself mixed up. I remember the original discussions about the proxy, and then that all materials were allowed, it will be interesting to see what gets entered.

Regards, Lloyd

[masmojo]

I fully expect this years entries to be far more sophisticated then the previous race. We have more new guys with experience building Pan chassis in other scales and that will certainly be an advantage for them. Additionally those of us who built for the last race, now have that experience under our belts and can build on that!

One form of chassis that did rather well last time and that nobody has really mentioned is the Aluminum Channel chassis. These are VERY easy to do for anybody who wants to dip their toe in the scratchbuilt 1/43 water. Simply take a piece of U shaped aluminum channel cut to length, then drill, grind and file it to your needs. the aluminum is soft and easy to work with. In the previous proxy 2 of my 3 builds were of this type and they were so light I had to screw brass plates to the bottom to get them to run well!

Speaking of I need to get cracking on my builds!

[300SLR]

If I may ask a couple of questions,
Is the racing on tracks where magnet traction works?
Is magnet traction allowed?

[Lloyd.L]

Hi 300 SLR, here is the link to the ISP43 proxy rules.

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61869

Although it does not specifically say 'no magnets', it does say it is run to the Pronomag rules, so it does mean no magnets, I think. I am sure that the organizers will clarify that.

At home I have a routed wood rally track and now a Carrera Go race track, and much prefer driving without magnets on both tracks, have you tried it?

Regards, Lloyd

[300SLR]

Thanks Lloyd

Anybody know if the racing on tracks where magnet traction works?

(Might seem a curious question to ask if traction magnets are probably not allowed, but as there is no mention of motor limits in the rules and some motors have a lot of magnetic field I was thinking how much performance that might give.)

[Lloyd.L]

I see where you are coming from now!

[masmojo]

I know that one of the tracks is a routed track with copper tape (Peter's), so you can put magnuts in but it will not help you any! I don't remember, but at this point I think the only other track is Teds and I want to say it's routed no mag as well, but I am sure he will jump in here and correct me!.

[Schackel]

Lloyd
I applaud you for starting this thread
I look forward to a lively discussion and learning something about building model racing cars.



Please, a small correction. The ISP43 is open to all chassis types that are scratchbuilt. Styrene, Wood, Abs or other commonly available materials will not be excluded. Things like Carbon fiber, stainless steel or other exotic materials are not in the spirit of the proxy,

Why not ? What is the spirit of the proxy ? SCRATCHBUILDING, as far as I understood and as the rules say. No restriction of any materials in the rules. Carbon fiber and stainless steel are not less common meanwhile than any other material.


nor are the use of cnc's, lasers, edm machines and such.
Basically what you can do at home with common tools.

What are "common tools ? "
Can´t you cut or shape a carbon plate with a dremel, cutting discs, routers, drills just the same way as you would do it with PCB, brass, spring steel ?
I can, and I`m sure everybody who works with a Dremel can as well.
BTW.: Does everybody have a vacuumformer at home ? If not - is it a common tool, and aren´t vacuformed bodies "exotic" then ? Well you can buy / get them from someone else who makes them. BUT this you can do with any "exotic" chassis then, too.....

Not easy - if one started nitpicking. But I only wanted to say that I wouldn´t ban any material, but the production methods.
I´d suggest that the main restricition regarding chassis should be be that they have to be built with tools everyone has or could have at home - just as you mean above.



Greetings, Roland


That closes the door on an interest of mine in carbon fiber and the use of my cnc router. Oh well!...................................

Ted

[Schackel]

Thanks Lloyd

Anybody know if the racing on tracks where magnet traction works?

(Might seem a curious question to ask if traction magnets are probably not allowed, but as there is no mention of motor limits in the rules and some motors have a lot of magnetic field I was thinking how much performance that might give.)

What about listing these motors ?

Regards,

Roland