PRESTO PARK SLOT CAR CLUB - 2012, Mega Slot Weekend - Vintage & Can Am / F1 races Options

[Russell Sheldon]

I must say I've never heard of back-up cars being allowed in open meetings. Club racing may be different.

Unfortunately, crashes happen all the time....



Even in the real world of motor racing, spare cars are not allowed.

Kind regards,

Russell

[Mick Kerr]

Russell Sheldon Posted Today, 12:49 PM
I must say I've never heard of back-up cars being allowed in open meetings.

Hi Russell,
I think that rather depends on the racing format.
If it's a segmented race then I totally agree.
If, however, it's qualifying heats followed by finals then why not?
I often run a different car on each lane in this format of racing and then race the fastest one in the finals.
It usually results in me getting a worse qualifying position than if I concentrated on just one car but it's fun and gives many more of my cars an outing.
I did exactly this at the Norwich 'classic' sports car race last weekend.
In most forms of motor racing you would be allowed to jump into the spare car, even a brand new car built up overnight, if the intended race car was damaged in qualifying.

Happy to go with whatever the rules might be for this meeting though.
I just might qualify better by sticking to just one car.
Cheers.
Mick.

PS. Still developing the Can-Am cars for this meeting and finding ways of making them even faster. Really looking forward to this meeting.

[Russell Sheldon]

Thanks for that, Mick. I've never thought of the heats as qualifying, but as part of the race.

If the heats are regarded as qualifying runs, then the race itself is only between the four drivers who qualify fastest and therefore the overall result should only reflect 1st through 4th (last) place. The other drivers haven't actually competed in the race; only in qualifying and are therefore technically DNQ. I guess there is a case for digital after all!

At the end of the day, it's Mike's event and will be run according to whatever rules he deems appropriate. I'm fine with that, but really don't want to see a repeat of the ECRA days of the '60s, where a beautifully engineered model car is entered purely for the purpose of winning Concours d'Elegance, trundles around for a few laps in order to qualify and is then switched for a 'proper' race car.

Looking forward to seeing your Can-Am car!

With kind regards,

Russell

[vfr750]

In my view, we shouldn't take this too seriously, after all we are only playing with toy cars.

I am very aware that for Double Trouble some people travel a long way to take part. We are using some very old equipment and if someone's motor goes pop in the first heat or they are taken out by someone elses accident I don't think it's fair to totally exclude them from the rest of the race. I have made a provision for a car to be replaced with another that fits both the rules and the spirit of the event. The penalty is the loss of concours points with only athe percentage of the race completed by the first car counting. This is a large enough penalty as concours points make up half the final score.

That's me though, it's your meeting Mike so it's up to you.

Cheers

John

[ferraif40]

I'm fine with that, but really don't want to see a repeat of the ECRA days of the '60s, where a beautifully engineered model car is entered purely for the purpose of winning Concours d'Elegance, trundles around for a few laps in order to qualify and is then switched for a 'proper' race car

It's the done thing at events such as Early Birds, where the car only has to complete one lap at reasonable speed to qualify for concours. Other events stipulate that cars must run in the minimum of one heat to qualify for concours. This works well, as it allows both the racer and the builder to race their superbly crafted models, but also stand a chance of winning the meeting, racing wise. For example, at the 2011 edition of 'Early Birds', Andi Rowland from Italy build a superbly detailed Vanwall, with removable bodywork showing an exact replica of the cars tube chassis, a stunning piece of engineering. However, the car was too top heavy and had a tendency to roll in the corners. He entered the car in concours, won clearly and then used a car he borrowed to race, and did very well.

When we run the retro meetings at Norwich, we follow EB's regs. This encourages some superb models to be entered, improving the quality of the concours entries no end.

Either way, Im not fussed, and will go with either,
Regards
Jon

[Mick Kerr]

Hi Russell,
Yes I can see what you're getting at.
As the overall prize is a combination of the results from concours and racing then you should only race the concours entry.

If the heats are regarded as qualifying runs, then the race itself is only between the four drivers who qualify fastest and therefore the overall result should only reflect 1st through 4th (last) place. The other drivers haven't actually competed in the race; only in qualifying and are therefore technically DNQ.

Actually this is not true.
We normally run step up finals.
The winner of the bottom final moves up to the next final and so on all the way to the top final.
With this system it is actually possible to qualify last, or even miss qualifying altogether, and still win the top final.
I've seen a number people step up through several finals over the years and it always creates a tremendous atmosphere around the track when someone gets a run going.

When we run the retro meetings at Norwich, we follow EB's regs.

Not quite true Jon.
You use a system of points for position in each heat, most points equals top qualifier.
This effectively makes each heat a race whereas the more common system, as used at Wolves, adds the total distance covered on each lane in a three minute heat. Under this, more common, system you can finish last in your heat on the worst lane but still have the best distance overall on that lane.
Each system requires a different mental approach.
The Norwich system places a premium on finishing position and can be very dependent on who you're drawn against in each heat.
The distance covered system places a premium on staying in the slot to get a good distance and ignoring all the other cars in the heat.
I enjoy both systems.

John,
I think we're talking about the Can-Am and F1 races on the Sunday here.
I'm sure Mike has said he will stick with the 'Double Trouble' format for the vintage races on Saturday.
That is one minute qualifying to 'seed' everyone into matched finals followed by a twenty minute segmented race (five minutes each lane).
The race winner being the driver covering the greatest distance from any of the finals.
Race results are then added to concours results to get the overall result for each scale.

Cheers.
Mick.

[ferraif40]

Not quite true Jon.
You use a system of points for position in each heat, most points equals top qualifier.
This effectively makes each heat a race whereas the more common system, as used at Wolves, adds the total distance covered on each lane in a three minute heat. Under this, more common, system you can finish last in your heat on the worst lane but still have the best distance overall on that lane.
Each system requires a different mental approach.
The Norwich system places a premium on finishing position and can be very dependent on who you're drawn against in each heat.
The distance covered system places a premium on staying in the slot to get a good distance and ignoring all the other cars in the heat.
I enjoy both systems.

I was referring to the way the concours is judged and run at Norwich, Mick. As you say, the race system is a little different at Norwich compared to Wolves, maybe one day we will run using the distance.

[Yazoo]

Below are the rules for ALL of the races over for the weekend two day period, so if you do not wish to comply then please feel free to withdraw your entry. As John (VFR750) said these are toy cars BUT the prize on Sunday is a fantastic and expensive prize kindly donated by Russell and it has to be fair and the same level playing field for every body, giving all entrants an equal chance of winning, whereby driving skills, car construction and attention to detail will make all the difference to your results.

This is what will be happening.

VINTAGE RACES.

Each driver will have 1 minute qualifying on the same lane - (probably green) which i think is the best lane and has seen the quickest times set at Presto. Each driver will then have a 5 minute race on each lane. The total distance covered will be calculated and points awarded. The car used in the qualifying and subsequent four heats MUST be the car entered for Concours and points scored from Concours will be added to race points to determine the overall winner.

HOWEVER - if, owing to the age of these cars one becomes undriveable by way of a car failure, ie, a blown motor etc, then upon authorisation from race control a spare car may be used BUT only one spare car is allowed for each 1/32 and 1/24th classes and this must comply with the spirit of the meeting. I have to be a little tolerant and less strict with these old cars as it will bE a joy to see these old cars raced in anger.

GOODWOOD CARS.

Only one car can be entered for Concours and this MUST be the race car used in all of the four heats. IF, the car breaks down then a spare car can be used but the driver will lose ALL Concours points scored. This will encourage the driver to fix the car. All tools will be available to effect repairs to the stricken car, H/D soldering irons, dremel, chassis jig and selection of spares available at cost from Race Control.

CAN AM/F1.

Only one car is allowed to be entered for Concours and this MUST be the race car used in all 4 heats. Again, if the car breaks then it will have to be fixed in the pit room. There will be all tools required for use to effect repairs. Points scored from the Concours judging will account for half the points scored in total.

At the time of booking in please register your Concours/race car for each class and any spare cars will be required to be scrutineered at the same time.

I hope this now clears up any querries or concerns any of you had. Mike

[Mick Kerr]

Hi Mike,
OK got all that but some questions about Goodwood, Can-Am and F1 still unanswered.
Are you saying that they will be run to the same format as the vintage races?
If not then how are the heat results recorded and what will be the finals format (if any)?

Please don't take any of our comments as criticism they're not meant that way.
Discussion about race format always comes up with any new classic open meeting.
After a couple of years of regular running of any event it will develop it's own personality and we will all know exactly what to expect.

You can count on me being there whatever the format.
Cheers.
Mick.

[ferraif40]

Sounds fine with me Mike. One final question, as the Goodwood Class has a concours, does this mean scratchbuilt sports cars are now allowed? If its just for NSR and Slot.it cars, surely it'll be a field of RTR cars only, all looking as they did when they came out of the factory?

[Yazoo]

Hi Mick. Thanks for your comments. In answer to your questions the Goodwood races, Can Am and F1/Indy cars will be run as we normally do at Presto Park with each driver having 4 heats, one on each lane followed by step up finals. If you check out one of my normal 'club night results' post you will see how the points will be allocated for those three events. 25 points down to 1, depending on the number of drivers. Hope this answers your querries.



Hi Jon, You and your scratch builds. Lol. I agree with what you say re all cars being 'as they left the factory' but I would hope that drivers would make some effort to relivery / repaint their cars to give a more varied appearance on the grids and this repaint could be included on the Concours form for the judge (Gary from MRE) to take into consideration for allocation of his points. You can build a car using any Slot it / NSR plastic chassis including the Slot it HRS chassis. No other chassis from any other maker, metal or otherwise at all will be eligible. For what you can and cannot use please see my post dated 15th May. My intention for this class was to encourage entries from 'club drivers' who probably race these Slot it and NSR cars at their club but are reluctant to attend an open meeting with drivers using highly engineered, self built cars that they feel would be beyond their capabilities to build, and thus they would not stand a chance. It's all about maximising everybody's chance to win that holiday on the day.

Thanks for your interest in this event guys. Mike

[Mick Kerr]

Thanks Mike, I think I've got it clear now.

My intention for this class was to encourage entries from 'club drivers' who probably race these Slot it and NSR cars at their club but are reluctant to attend an open meeting with drivers using highly engineered, self built cars that they feel would be beyond their capabilities to build, and thus they would not stand a chance.

With regard to the Goodwood Cup I totally accept your rules for the event.
I do have to say that it is incredibly difficult to scratch build a hard bodied slot car* that is faster than those manufactured by Slot.It and NSR. They, amongst all the manufacturers, seem to understand how a slot car works and design all their cars to the highest performance standards.
It may surprise many people that at many of our CSCRA scratch built race meetings there are constant requests to ban Slot.It and NSR cars because they are too fast and often beat the scratch builds.
Personally I think it's great that anyone can buy one of these cars and be competitive in the classes for which they make cars. I do hope, however, that they don't expand their ranges too far and make scratch building completely unnecessary.

(* By 'hard bodied slot car' I mean scale models of real cars built with injection moulded plastic, fibre glass, etc bodies on scratch built metal, PCB or commercial plastic chassis. I do not mean BSCRA style, steel chassis, Lexan bodied thingies with no front wheels and sponge rear tyres).

Still really looking forward to this meeting.
It should be an amazingly varied weekend of racing.
Cheers.
Mick.

[Yazoo]

Thanks Mick, me too. It will be a lot of work for me but i'm really looking forward to this great weekend. Mike

[Yazoo]

TYRE TREATMENTS FOR THIS EVENT.

Would all entrants please note that the ONLY eligible treatments for tyres at this event are:-

Lighter fuel to clean tyres.

3 in 1 oil for softening tyres. NO OTHER OILS ALLOWED!

Masking tape ONLY to clean rubber debris off tyres. (Carpet tape, Gaffer tape, Packaging tape is expressly banned for this meeting.)

This issue re tyre treatments will be closely monitored so please don't get caught out.

Thanks. Mike

[Mick Kerr]

Hi Mike,
Alan S has posted this question in a separate thread but he appears to be referring to this meeting.

Alan S posted Today, 08:58 AM
Hi Mike,
Aside from Ortmann tyres being stipulated for the Retro races, I cannot find any other mention of tyres. The regulations for last year's Classic event banned the use of silicone and sponge tyres. Please would you clarify the tyre situation for this year's races.

It is my belief that CSCRA rules will apply and these state simply that;
Silicone tyres and sponge/foam rubber tyres are not permitted.
(Link to CSCRA site at the bottom of this post).

Can you confirm that this is the case?

Cheers.
Mick.