[gunpilot]

I am about to make an RTV mold from a master I have made of a 1927 Delage Grand Prix car. I am close to adding details and the final finish before making the mold.

I have noticed some casters make a basic casting of the body, add detail to the casting then remold and cast the final body. Now my question. Is this the best/easiest way to make a casting or could I add all the detail first then make the mold and still have an acceptable casting?
Jim

 

[MAF]

Hi Jim, nice work on the Delage. The amount of detail you can get on the pattern the better, it all depends on what is used for the pattern. I normally rough out the shape in balsa which is not good for fine detailing/finish which is why I take a resin casting of the balsa shape and detail the shell up from there and recast. I have also made patterns from 'chemical wood' which is great for detailing and finish and I can cast a finished shell straight from that but that makes a lot of mess when roughing out the shape which is why I prefer the first method.

The only thing to remember is you will get and exact copy of whatever you mould from so if there's a poor finish on the pattern there will be the exact same finish on the mould/resulting casting.

 

[gunpilot]

Thanks Marlon. I have decided to add most of the detail to the master such as the frame side rails, louvers, hood hinges and some suspension detail. I have worked with basswood on model boats and find it easy to work. I use cheap automotive primer to fill, smooth and harden the body as well as providing the final finish. The mold will be a three part mold, consisting of a main body mold and two separate molds for under body detail at the front and rear. When the casting is cured I will add the rest of the details needed to complete the car. The chassis will be scratch built since there is very little room inside the body and I doubt there are any chassis available which will work. There will no more than an inch of width to accommodate a motor and drive train. I will post a picture of the master when completed and ready to make a mold from.
Jim

 

[scaleslotcars]

As Marlon said, the finish you get on your master will be the finish of your molded bodies, so get it as absolutely perfect as you can.
Probably it is easier to work on a resin shell to achieve this but it is costly to make two or more molds.

Here's a balsa scratchbuilt Delage I built a few years ago.
The chassis was the actual chassis rails, ok for this one off model but if you are making a series of bodies a little time consuming to cut out the brass rails.

 

[gunpilot]

Great looking Delage GP's. Now I know what to aim for. I fortunately have a lot of patience for this sort of thing and will, to the best of my abilities, get the master as accurate as practicle. Last night I epoxied in the styrene frame rails and gave the body a couple of shots of primer. How did you do the louvers? I searched through forums for ideas, finally I went through some partial street rod kits I had and found hood side panels from a '34 ford which had numerous louvers. These I cut out to shape and will epoxy in place before final painting. By the way, on your blue Delage where did you get the tires and wheels? They look period perfect for the car.
Jim

 

[mmmoose1]

Hi Jim

Look here for your louvers http://www.archertransfers.com/AR88037.html and this is the small size. The decal sheet is 4.5 x2.75 inches to give you an idea of their size.
The best bet for wheels is to get them from Penelope Pitlane they give you the best bang for the buck. http://www.penelopepitlane.co.uk/wheels/vintage-wheel.html and he has the photo etched wire inserts and tires to go with them. He may have the insert decals done by now also.
Reply to my PM when you get a chance, I am sorta in the neighborhood so to speak. I have at least one shell from all the better resin casters for you to look at.

Ken

 

[tomwysom]

Re: Archer louvre decals. There are some packs (A88055 and A88056) that contain an assortment of sizes.
They also do rivets.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[gunpilot]

I apologize for not replying to your last posts, Ken and Tom. July turned out to be a hectic month moving my wife's mother from her house to an apartment, a difficult experience to say the least. I ordered some louvers from Archer's a short while ago and am awaiting their arrival.
I have a question regarding the interior of the Delage. I have incorporated a upholstered seat back into the master but am not sure if I should include a seat bottom. I realize the seat bottom could be cut out if required, and I'm not sure how drivers are molded and affixed to the car. Would a flat seat bottom be the best way to go?
Getting close to finishing the master. Lots of little details along with making some corrections. I was going to include a picture of the car showing my current progress but the batteries to the camera are dead, history! As soon as I get new batteries I'll post the picture.
Jim

 

[mmmoose1]

Hi Jim

I would put a bottom on the interior like the one in the blue car in the photos just below the sill on the side of the body. It looks like there is enough room for a FF050 motor to fit under it. If need be you could trim the inside of the interior for motor clearance and still have a platform for the drivers lower legs to sit on on the outer edge of the body.

I understand the time involved taking care of our older relatives, I hope everything works out well for your mother in law.

Regards Ken

 

[gunpilot]

Hi Ken,

Based on your Delage and comments I will leave a raised floor which can then be cut out if need be around the drivers position. If there is clearance I will leave the floor in place. The actual car is quite small compared to a Mercedes W154 and the driver sits quite high, as shown in photos of R. Seaman in the #16 Delage. Seaman appears to sitting on rather than in the car, more like you see in a midget racer. I will make a simple 1/32 driver to see how it sits, and make adjustments accordingly if required.

Jim

 

[300SLR]

The driver looks right comparing it with this photo of Robert Benoist winning at Brooklands in 1927

 

[mmmoose1]

Hi Jim

Take a look on page four of this website. The driver sits pretty low in this car with only his head above the cowl.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mick_danger/s...5439009/?page=4
Now what a Delage GP car was doing in Milwaukee at a gathering of oval cars is a mystery. There are some realy fine looking cars in this gallery.

Ken

 

[gunpilot]

Ken,

Here is the photo I'm referring to:

Seaman appears to be sitting higher in this photo.
I have my camera back in service so here is the latest with emphasis on the cockpit:

As you can see I have only detailed the seat back.

Jim

 

[mmmoose1]

Hi Jim

After doing some more research and seeing some photos of R Seaman standing next to his contemporaries he was a very lanky guy and that is why more of him is out of the cockpit compared to photos of other drivers of the time. The car he is photographed in ran at Indy in 1929 with Chiron as the driver so that is the connection to the oval cars gathered at Milwaukee.

The body is coming along well and the frame rails out the back are a great detail often omitted by resin casters, Keep me signed up for one. If you need some drivers to use as guides let me know I can send you some to consider.

Regards Ken

 

[gunpilot]

Ken,
I see your point about Seaman's height. How high the driver sits in the car will depend on which car/driver is to modeled, I guess, also it appears these cars changed over time, from race to race, owner to owner and so forth. I have found it difficult to model a specific Delage simply because of lack of photographic reference. I have focused primarily on the Seaman's Delage because I have found it to be the most photo documented Delage, with photos from different angles. No good close up photos of it were found though, so a lot of guess work is involved. The restored Delage, recently auctioned off, is, I think, the Seaman Delage. If it is, then, the car is not the same as it was in 1936, from what I can see. Good close up photos of it are available on the web, though, which I have used for reference. I'm trying to get as much detail, as practical, into the car when viewed from a scale distance.
If you are offering a driver to check the cockpit layout I would appreciate it as it would save me time.

Thanks
Jim

 

[300SLR]

Here's a shot fof Robert Benoist winning the 1927 French GP - again the driver is much lower the one of Dick Seaman in the car,

Looking at the photo on this web site
http://www.motorsnaps.com/v/1920s+Racing+C...ageViewsIndex=1
showing Benoist standing beside his Brooklands winning car (2) he doesn't look to be that short

Seaman drove one of the cars some years later, could it be the seat was mounted higher by then?

 

[gunpilot]

300SLR,
I have no idea why the difference in drivers heights. Could be, just as in racing today, each driver had his own driving position preference. I'm getting carried away with this seat thing. I'm going to leave the seat bottom(actually the cast floor of the cockpit) where it's at and if I need to add extra height, no problem.

Jim

 

[gunpilot]

I'm finally at the point where I can apply the final coats of primer and paint for making the casting mold. Since the last pics that I posted I have added a bulge on the left side of the engine cowl for the carb intake, and the bases for the windscreen.

I have made the instrument panel, rear view mirror and windscreen. I still have to make the exhaust system, leaf springs, and friction shocks. I plan on making molds of all these parts.
Jim

 

[gunpilot]

I finally have the Delage master finished and I'm ready to make the mold

Next pics will be of mold and first casting.
Jim

 

[mmmoose1]

Very nice Jim, it looks like it has been well worth all the time that you spent on it. Looking forward to seeing the casting. Ken