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Next year in August I will run the Pancake Cup again, exact date and venue will be settled nearer the date.

Rules

Pancake Cup

Stock Magnatraction or X Traction chassis
X Traction or weaker motor magnets
No additional traction magnets
Maximum width 34mm
Bodies = must weigh at least 3 grammes, any Can-Am, Porsche 917, Ferrari 512
Paint Schemes must be appropriate to a 1965 -75 racing car or an original Aurora paint scheme

Classic F1

Stock G+ chassis
Stock G+ motor magnets
No additional traction magnets
Maximum width 34 mm
Bodies = must weigh at least 3 grammes, any 1970s F1 or Indy Car
Paint Schemes must be appropriate to a 1970s F1 car or an original Aurora paint scheme

Anything not specifically banned is allowed
Magnets will be tested by their ability to lift a weight (I will determine these weights shortly)

Please let me know if you are interested, we will need 8 racers to make this a viable event, cost will be £6 for the days racing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I've made a couple of errors with the F1 bodies that have been pointed out to me by Martin.
I want to allow people to run resins in either class which is why the rules are how they are, but please read the following revisions to the F1 bodies rule

F1 bodies = any F1 or Indy car body originally made by Aurora for the G+ or any F1 body from 1974 - 1985 weighing at least 2.5 grammes.
Paint scheme should be appropriate for the year the real car raced in or Aurora original.

Any queries let me know, and please feel free to discuss anything Pancake or G+ related on this thread.
They'll also be a concours competition as well, maybe with prizes.
Tony has offered to host the meeting at Yelling again, which I think is a good idea.
 

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Is it likely to be the same weekend or is it a bit early to say?

And will it be a weekend event again?

I'll do my best to round up some interest from this neck of the woods
 

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Any chance of allowing the brush barrel mod as discussed elsewhere in the SG class, it would make like a lot easier if we could change the brushes without expecting to take an hour doing it
 

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QUOTE (pasiro @ 16 Aug 2011, 14:05) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Is it likely to be the same weekend or is it a bit early to say?

And will it be a weekend event again?

I'll do my best to round up some interest from this neck of the woods


Yes on a weekend, most likely the same weekend or the one before!

Some more racers from CHORC would be good, for this unique meeting.

QUOTE (pasiro @ 16 Aug 2011, 14:14) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Any chance of allowing the brush barrel mod as discussed elsewhere in the SG class, it would make like a lot easier if we could change the brushes without expecting to take an hour doing it


The Tyco pro that they has been taken from is not easy to find, let alone the parts that you used, the Jury is out for the moment. Can you test run it for a fair period of time, to check it doesn't move?
 

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On the subject of brush barrels, I was going to have a look and see whether Wizzard ones could be made to fit, this would make changing the brushes very easy.

And on the subject of Tyco Pros - that's a chassis I'd like to try.
 

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Tyco Pros are great fun but in my opinion a bit fragile, and the pickup material is difficult to replace

As for those brush barrels, they are found on some of the other cars like curvehuggers and hp7's which are 10 a penny, but having a trial period first is probably the best bet
 

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Julian - I know you said you did not want to go stronger than AW magnets, but it is possible to get the Dash magnets pretty easily and very cheaply. You could organise some kind of group purchase.

I don't think the main attraction of the magnets was them being stronger, altough they are, but that they gaussed much more consistently than anything else.

You could always try a set yourself, and if they are too strong, no harm no foul you could stick with the current rules. Either way there would be no chatter about notice and people having to 'fess up about what they are using...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I don't think Dash are still in business, but I would need to test a set before I made a change, you can get Polymer magnets to replace the ceramic ones, but I don't want to go this way because the cars are too stuck down.
I have found a fair bit of variation in the X-Traction magnets, I've got 3 sets and swapping them round in the same chassis has shown that they all grip differently.

BTW I've found a way of measuring the magnet strength, if they can lift a 21mm socket I've got they're not legal, a G+ can pick this up, my best magnatraction can't, though you can feel it trying.
 

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QUOTE (Julian_Boolean @ 22 Aug 2011, 09:17) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>BTW I've found a way of measuring the magnet strength, if they can lift a 21mm socket I've got they're not legal, a G+ can pick this up, my best magnatraction can't, though you can feel it trying.

Funny that, i was going to try sockets yesterday and never got around to it


G Plus will pick up a 22mm socket lengthways and the magna will pick up 16mm maximum

With the original magnets the magna won't even pick up 12mm

Not too sure this is a good way of checking them though, if someone like me checks them like this, they may pick up my sockets but not yours, depending on the weight and what amount of iron the steel has in them.

It will also depend on how long you put the car on the socket before you lift and which way around you have it
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You've got lightweight sockets

Mine will only pick up my 21mm that way round, or maybe we now know why you won?

Seriously though, I knew it wasn't a scientifid method, and there might well be a set of X traction magnets that are stronger than the ones I've got.
Realistically I think most people racing don't want to cheat and it isn't worth worrying about.
 

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Maybe a simple track test would suffice?

Obviously due to the various tyre sizes it would have to be done without the tyres



Then slowly lift one end with the car starting at the top and see what degree angle it moves



I don't know how feasible this idea is, but it should work shouldn't it, as long as it's the same track, same lane and it's lifted in increments slowly?

just an idea

BTW, that point in the picture was just before it moved, well it moved a bit then I had to stop it to take the pic


Incidentally the socket I used weighed 124 grams
 

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You could probably get Andy W or somebody to make some weights, or just nick the American idea and use coins.

Although Dash are gone there are lots of the magnets floating around cheaply.
 

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Reading through some US clubs' Magnatraction rules, they seem to either limit mags to stock MT and XT or leave them open. The easiest way is to look at how the magnets are painted.

X-traction magnets are considered the strongest ceramic mags for the Magnatraction. From what I've read, US racers are happy that the consistency of XT magnets is good and likely to be reasonably well matched. They come painted red and white.

Non-MT AFX are red and black - is that the same colours as the Aurora MT mags? I don't have one, so can't check.

MT poly mags are different colours (I've found blue and black ones at 2 retailers) so should be easy to spot - and even easier to spot on the track


Dash magnets are for T-jets so would need to be shimmed to fit in a Magnatraction or X-Traction chassis. Being 2mm shorter, they aren't as strong as the XT mags. But they could be used as a 'hand-out'. JAG Hobbies sell 10 pairs for $27.50. They also have the XT mags for $3 each.

If the rules state stock MT or XT mags, I think this is easy for people to respect. The only problem is if someone buys a second-hand car from the US that comes with poly mags - and they don't know what they got.
 

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QUOTE (woodcote @ 22 Aug 2011, 11:50) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>If the rules state stock MT or XT mags, I think this is easy for people to respect. The only problem is if someone buys a second-hand car from the US that comes with poly mags - and they don't know what they got.

It would show up instantly, and they would be unhappy at that being the case.

Hand out magnets could be the way to go as I said before, paid for by the entry fee and yours to keep!
 
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