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Fascinating stuff (No, honestly. Obscure grammar is another of my favourite self-indulgent areas of geekery). And it isn't 'Dillygrout': search on 'Dillegrout' and you'll find something mildly interesting, or fascinating if you are into old foodie stuff.

I think I was vaguely aware of the 'quotes within a quote' thing, maybe a relic of my schooldays, where there was a clear distinction between 'English Language' and 'English Literature'. I was quite good at the former, it took me a while to catch up with the Literature thing I'm afraid. My way of doing it has been to have the double quotes on the outside and the singles within.

Someone (not me) should do some research into how many fingers of each hand people of different nationalities use when they're 'quoting' something in a speech/presentation. A sub-set of that research would be into how often that really means 'I don't believe it'.

Moving back towards 'What have you bought?' - Not much truly vintage. I got a nice Airfix/MRRC Ferrari 250 LM body kit yesterday, from the slot car version of the moulds rather than the static kit. No driver, unfortunately, but otherwise very nice. From a UK Ebay seller pberesford (the 'p' stands for Phil) who does a lot of really nice vintage stuff.

Apart from that, I've picked up a modern 'Fusion' PSU that will power my vintage Revell test circuit before too long, and a very modern Revell 1/24 Jaguar E Type static kit that will get vintage running gear (Revell? Monogram? One or the other. Maybe Revell with an RP77?). It will be a companion for my only other 1/24th shell, Mike's (Redcat) beat up Shelby Cobra.
 

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Keith, I'm not surprised you're confused, because in the early days, pre SRM, Supershells themselves were confusing about the two different sport/saloon chassis they offered. The pic you showed in your second post illustrates it perfectly. The top image is of a Popin chassis, but the lower picture is of a 'Screwin' version. No, I'm not pulling your leg! See the two pics I've posted

As it happens, I have a damaged Popin chassis going spare. The damage is that someone (not me) has removed - surgically cleanly - the two rear mounting lugs. Apart from that, it's a good working example. No good to me - I already have two perfect Popins and only one SShells Elite body. If you're interested, pm me. Fiver + P&P?

John
 

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I just won this on UK Ebay - a "huge vintage Airfix bundle". It was the 15 x "Radius 3" corners (actually, in Airfix/MRRC talk, "Large radius curves") that sucked me in, I haven't ever seen any of those. I'd probably have paid what I did for the whole bundle just for those.

It all looks to be steel conductors rather than brass. which is a bonus for me, and there are a few other slightly unusual bits and pieces that I will keep. I've never up till now been interested in the Jump section, but one is apparently included - I may set it up to see how it works.

I'd do a link to the completed Ebay auction if I could, but with my current browser set up I can't. It shouldn't be too hard to find if anyone is interested.
 

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Another big bundle on its way from France - Revell this time. The main attraction was the presence of a good number - 16, I think - of the outer curves. I've been looking for more of those for a ages. Also what look like near mint Lotus Ford and BRM cars. Loads of borders and other "extra" stuff, including a mechanical lap counter. All looks in good condition.
 

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Hi Don, yes great find, although it didn't take much effort. It was just a regular Ebay look to see if there were any Revell outer curves listed: Category "Toys and Games", "Revell", click on "Scalextric and slot car" and there it was. 150 Euros starting price, quite high P&P, and the new 20% VAT warning. Maybe that put people over here off? I think it was a 10 day auction, and I bid quite early with little optimism, but there was only one other bidder who didn't seem that interested and was seen off at little extra cost. I would have gone a lot higher than I had to.

I'm not really that interested in having the cars in themselves - they were just an insurance policy, because I thought that sold on their own, or maybe as a pair, they would go a long way to offsetting the cost of the outer curves, which were what I was really after.

But I have been interested over the years in what model of Lotus the Revell model is supposed to be, and I'm now fairly confident that it's a not too awful an attempt at an early Lotus 25 - I.e. the bodywork that was run in the first four World Championship races in 1962, before they did away with most of the engine coverings at the back. I think the main problem is that it's too wide, and the windscreen isn't a good representation. But for whatever reason, when there were so many good representations of other F1 cars, nobody at the time did a really good Lotus 25.

Since I did my first post, I looked back at other threads about the Revell Lotus Ford - I found one that started with a post from Taffy about a fairly rough and ready 1/24th Lotus 25, which developed into a discussion (you were involved) about the Revell model - 1/24th? 1/25th? What on earth is it meant to be anyway? I've added a detail photo of the box - it says 1/24th, but it also says "Grand Prix Lotus Ford", which can't be true (unless Indianapolis 500s were ever known as "Grand Prix"? World championship, yes sometimes.) Despite the teaser number 92, and the "Lotus Ford", I think it's an early model enclosed rear end Lotus 25.

John
 

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Hi Steve. I won't be going four-lane in the short term - I'd need to have at least three other buddies to race with for that to be worth it, and at the moment I'm a solo home racer, me against the clock. I wanted the extra outers to give me a more flowing (faster!) home circuit, but I haven't got a lot of room at the moment so it's partly having stuff in the bank for a time when I have more space. I'll send you a PM shortly.

P.S, I already had a carrier bag full of controllers from earlier acquisitions, some OK, some rough as a rough thing. I'll be interested to see how the new ones are.

John
 

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Steve, I don't think Lotus were the first "New kids on the block" when it came to rear/mid engine cars at Indianapolis. I think Cooper with Jack Brabham were also involved in the innovation, he drove a Cooper into 9th place in 1961, according to an article by Walkden Fisher in the September 1964 issue of Model Cars, available on SF thanks to Dave D Stevens. The article is about a Vollstedt-Offenhauser Indianapolis car, featured on the front cover, but with a back to front star spangled as a background. I always thought that the Vollstedt-Offenhauser looked a lot like a Cooper F1 and only recently found out why. (There was a grovelling apology about the wrong way round flag an issue or so later.)
 

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Don's having a bit of a memory lapse, in the thread I referred to earlier, he talked about the Revell scale being said to be both 1/25 and 1/24 for the same moulding.

I don't really understand Andy's post. That pic of a Lotus 25 #4 is exactly what I was talking about, it's from the Dutch Grand Prix in 1962. What Colin Chapman described as the most simply beautiful car they had produced to that time, and before they started cutting holes in the engine cover, just to make it go a bit longer without breaking down. It worked up to a point; but there were other reliability issues as well and Graham Hill with the BRM took the championship ahead of Jim and the 25.

To my mind, Revell pairing the 1962 Grand Prix world championship winning car and the runner-up makes total sense, as does adding the bogus "Lotus Ford" tag for Marketing purposes.

FWIW, I'm going to take a long hard look at the two cars when I get them, to see how much work would be needed to get them to be better scale representation of the two 1962 cars. I think they'll both need to be narrower, and that as a result, I might have two spare 1/24th Revell F1 chassis on my hands. I can live with that.

P.S. I've just seen that Don can't see the "1/24th" on the box I'll be getting next week. I still can't post links to other threads on here, but it would be good if someone could find and link that earlier thread. I think it was in Scratch Building, but wherever it is, a search for "Taffy" and "Lotus 25" should do the job.
 

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Sorry, Don, I sent you looking for the wrong thread. Try "Revell Porsche" started in this forum by Quickcars on 26 June 2019.

John
 

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My French parcel of Revell stuff arrived today - very quick, no apparent delay at customs, and certainly no extra 20% VAT charged which was a good result. I did get 16 outer curves, so that's the main thing, everything else was just extras to be used or sold on as time goes by.

And I've finally had a hands-on with the two Revell "1/24th Grand prix cars". The box for the "Grand Prix Lotus-Ford" is for a kit, it has a fairly typical white high density foam insert with compartments for body, tyres, chassis components, and is (fairly) clearly marked as 1/24 Scale. Also equally clearly marked on one of the side panels is a picture labelled "1/24th Scale Grand Prix BRM". For what that's worth.

Slightly to my surprise, I think the Lotus is a better representation of an early 1962 Lotus 25 than the BRM is of the later 1962 P57. Both are far too wide, of course, but I think the Lotus is a better effort overall. I'll take some measurements later, mainly overall length of body and wheelbase. We'll see how that works out; and of course I know we're supposed to think that we can more or less ignore scale for these moulds, but I'd like to check. I mean, who would have thought that the much belittled Airfix Lotus 24 mould is pretty much accurate for 1/32 overall body length? It's just it being too wide, and the wheelbase being not quite right, that makes it look so wrong.

The only thing that has surprised me in these recent posts is that anyone still thinks that the Revell Lotus is an attempt at a "Lotus 24". I can better understand the case for it being maybe a 29 - Indianapolis; but a 24 it just isn't.

Whatever. I've got my outer curves and that's the main thing.

John
 

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I've recently won this "1950s 1990s" Airfix Scalextric job lot - it hasn't arrived yet, but is keenly awaited, because I think it includes something quite rare - which I also think Keith (Beardy) will spot.
 

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Yes, it was the dark green lotus that caught my eye. I looked at the listing photos as closely as I could, and think it's the actual colour of the plastic rather than a paint job. Time will tell. No holes for the windscreen pegs, so as Keith says, an early version. The listing said all the cars have motors except the Porsche, so it will be interesting to see what's inside. I'll be really pleased if the Lotus has one of the original cube motors with the wire brush springs rather than the flat ones.
 

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Mike, the driver is factory painted, and I have a red Lotus 24, body definitely not painted but the driver painted in exactly the same style as for my 'new' Lotus. And wheels are easily interchangeable....

However you (and Keith earlier) are both right, the body had been painted - inside and out, full coverage. I first put the body into a weak caustic soda solution, and that cleared the greyish remnants around the cockpit very quickly. At that stage I was almost convinced that it was dark green plastic, but I upped the caustic soda to make a saturated solution, and that also made zero impression. It was the isopropyl alcohol this morning that started to shift the covering, to reveal what is now my second pale green Lotus 24.

It was a bit of a relief, actually. I want to make some minor changes the rear engine cowling, but if it really been a dark green version, I don't think I would have felt able to mess with it.

Johni
 

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I took a bit of a gamble on this one, an MRRC double pole-pieced 3-pole with no brush gear. The seller didn't know what he had, so scattergunned a few manufacturers in the listing - perfectly OK when you really don't know what you're selling. MRRC wasn't included, but "Revell" was, which is how I spotted it. I had a spare set of brushes and a spring (robbed from a duff Scalex RX4), and the motor goes well.

But can anyone shed any light on the front end? I didn't pay it much attention, and thought it was a scratch-build, but it isn't. Very nicely crafted, with independently rotating front wheels. The axle is 1/8th" (or very very close) but none of my spare Revell wheels will fit - I think it's the thread type, not the diameter? Atlas, maybe? Ah, yes - I do have one Atlas motor, and the main part of the front end is the same - except it's been modified to take an Airfix steering front end! (It came under a vac formed BRM H16).

P.S. They're not going to stay paired together. The motor will get a real MRRC front end, and I would quite like to match up the front end to something else, if I can find wheels to fit.
 

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Hi, and thanks (John, I only just saw Don's post). I do already have quite a few MRRC 3 and 5 pole motors (more 5 poles than threes) so I could cannibalise one of those I suppose. This is my first double poled piece 3-pole, so I think it does deserve the best I can give it. I need to check if the Ken Stokes National champion Merc did have an MRRC steering front end. And after all, it was the motor that caught my attention, not the front end. Incidentally, I was mildly surprised that when I removed the bolts to remove the front that the extra pole pieces are only held in place by the bolts, no solder or other adhesive involved. Was that normal? I do have a doubled 5-pole, but that's got a lot of (non-magnetic) solder.

I don't know what to make of the independent front axle. The bolts that came with it seem to fit the rear axle of my Atlas BRM perfectly - but the wheel that I took off the BRM doesn't want to fit on the new axle. Maybe a damaged thread? Don't know; but it was a bonus so I'm still a happy chap. I suppose it would be quite nice to marry up the new front end, if I can get some wheels, with the older Atlas motor.
 

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About one of the extra pole pieces being inside the original - it's just a trick of the angle the pic was taken at; both the extra pole pieces are definitely outside the original frame. The camera never actually lies, but it can certainly mislead which is what has happened here. They weren't "my" photos, btw, just downloads from the ebay listing. I thought they were really good (I didn't post them all) and what I was mostly looking for was the solder connections to the armature. It certainly made me look several times, though, both at the pics and various motors. But it's definitely just an optical illusion.

Thanks for the comments about soldered or not extra pole pieces. I wonder if there was a discussion back in the day? My (modern) two pennorth would be that although I know that lead is non magnetic, I don't know if adding a non-magnetic substance into a small air-gap would actually impede the magnetic flux. I would also mention that heating a ferric magnet is one of the sure-fire way to de-magnetise it. I would close by saying the simple bolted solution is mechanically sound, so leave it at that.

I didn't take any pics of the pole pieces, but I did take a few of the disassembled front end, a couple are included below. That independently rotating axle is a thing of real beauty, the central brass sheath is really really thin, you can barely feel the ridge, and it slides through the 1/8th (5:40) bearing bush comfortably enough. I hope the 2nd pic in particular is clear enough to give an idea of who made it.

I don't think I'll be trying to buy any, I have made a few of my own and although they aren't as pretty as this one, they work, and at least I know the wheels will fit!
 

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