Another big bundle on its way from France - Revell this time. The main attraction was the presence of a good number - 16, I think - of the outer curves. I've been looking for more of those for a ages. Also what look like near mint Lotus Ford and BRM cars. Loads of borders and other "extra" stuff, including a mechanical lap counter. All looks in good condition.
Wow, very nice find and in France yet! The cars do look to be in excellent shape, and they've got the slightly later SP510X motor too, judging by the can color... maybe assembled from parts, or was there a later edition of these two kits?
Hi Don, yes great find, although it didn't take much effort. It was just a regular Ebay look to see if there were any Revell outer curves listed: Category "Toys and Games", "Revell", click on "Scalextric and slot car" and there it was. 150 Euros starting price, quite high P&P, and the new 20% VAT warning. Maybe that put people over here off? I think it was a 10 day auction, and I bid quite early with little optimism, but there was only one other bidder who didn't seem that interested and was seen off at little extra cost. I would have gone a lot higher than I had to.
I'm not really that interested in having the cars in themselves - they were just an insurance policy, because I thought that sold on their own, or maybe as a pair, they would go a long way to offsetting the cost of the outer curves, which were what I was really after.
But I have been interested over the years in what model of Lotus the Revell model is supposed to be, and I'm now fairly confident that it's a not too awful an attempt at an early Lotus 25 - I.e. the bodywork that was run in the first four World Championship races in 1962, before they did away with most of the engine coverings at the back. I think the main problem is that it's too wide, and the windscreen isn't a good representation. But for whatever reason, when there were so many good representations of other F1 cars, nobody at the time did a really good Lotus 25.
Since I did my first post, I looked back at other threads about the Revell Lotus Ford - I found one that started with a post from Taffy about a fairly rough and ready 1/24th Lotus 25, which developed into a discussion (you were involved) about the Revell model - 1/24th? 1/25th? What on earth is it meant to be anyway? I've added a detail photo of the box - it says 1/24th, but it also says "Grand Prix Lotus Ford", which can't be true (unless Indianapolis 500s were ever known as "Grand Prix"? World championship, yes sometimes.) Despite the teaser number 92, and the "Lotus Ford", I think it's an early model enclosed rear end Lotus 25.
Hi Steve. I won't be going four-lane in the short term - I'd need to have at least three other buddies to race with for that to be worth it, and at the moment I'm a solo home racer, me against the clock. I wanted the extra outers to give me a more flowing (faster!) home circuit, but I haven't got a lot of room at the moment so it's partly having stuff in the bank for a time when I have more space. I'll send you a PM shortly.
P.S, I already had a carrier bag full of controllers from earlier acquisitions, some OK, some rough as a rough thing. I'll be interested to see how the new ones are.
perhaps about when this model released, they were thinking of the first Lotus assault on Indy, 1963 it was, with Ford power in the type 29's. They were quite a shocker when they showed up, Americans always smugly thinking they are the only game around. Doubt anyone then even knew what a 25 was. (maybe a few journalists)
Steve, I don't think Lotus were the first "New kids on the block" when it came to rear/mid engine cars at Indianapolis. I think Cooper with Jack Brabham were also involved in the innovation, he drove a Cooper into 9th place in 1961, according to an article by Walkden Fisher in the September 1964 issue of Model Cars, available on SF thanks to Dave D Stevens. The article is about a Vollstedt-Offenhauser Indianapolis car, featured on the front cover, but with a back to front star spangled as a background. I always thought that the Vollstedt-Offenhauser looked a lot like a Cooper F1 and only recently found out why. (There was a grovelling apology about the wrong way round flag an issue or so later.)
I've got both of those Lotus books Andy, very handsome volumes - the collectibles book has all kinds of memorabilia, not just toys!
If you think the Revell Lotus is a bit disproportioned, check out the early Carrera F1 cars and most others from that period - motors were just too big for real scale models.
The Revell F1 models are marked as 1/25 on the box, not 1/24... Remember that a lot of the plastic kit manufacturers made car models in 1/25, especially AMT, and I think Revell as well. But Monogram was already doing 1/24.
Don's having a bit of a memory lapse, in the thread I referred to earlier, he talked about the Revell scale being said to be both 1/25 and 1/24 for the same moulding.
I don't really understand Andy's post. That pic of a Lotus 25 #4 is exactly what I was talking about, it's from the Dutch Grand Prix in 1962. What Colin Chapman described as the most simply beautiful car they had produced to that time, and before they started cutting holes in the engine cover, just to make it go a bit longer without breaking down. It worked up to a point; but there were other reliability issues as well and Graham Hill with the BRM took the championship ahead of Jim and the 25.
To my mind, Revell pairing the 1962 Grand Prix world championship winning car and the runner-up makes total sense, as does adding the bogus "Lotus Ford" tag for Marketing purposes.
FWIW, I'm going to take a long hard look at the two cars when I get them, to see how much work would be needed to get them to be better scale representation of the two 1962 cars. I think they'll both need to be narrower, and that as a result, I might have two spare 1/24th Revell F1 chassis on my hands. I can live with that.
P.S. I've just seen that Don can't see the "1/24th" on the box I'll be getting next week. I still can't post links to other threads on here, but it would be good if someone could find and link that earlier thread. I think it was in Scratch Building, but wherever it is, a search for "Taffy" and "Lotus 25" should do the job.
I think it was a case of simple economics for a lot of '60s slot car manufactures. You have a chassis that has a certain width ,length or height and has to be pressed to shape so do you spend money having the dies for the press changed or just make the new model fit the chassis. For most manufactures using metal chassis I think the cost of changing a chassis that was to big for the scaled body out weighed the need to be 100% scale accurate. One advantage manufactures like Scalextric and Airfix had with their clamshell bodies or running gear clipped on to the body moulding was the only size determining factor would be the motor or crown gear.
I just noted in that thread that the slot car kits say 1/25, while the body boxes say 1/24 - however, I just checked and my BRM body box also says 1/25, but in fact it says 1/25th, instead of the 1/25 on the slot car box - that drives me crazy - do we say 1/2lf or 1/4er??
Anyway, PDL also pointed out the the Rat Fink and Mr. Gasser models by Revell, using the same Lotus and BRM bodies, but in funny colors and with weirdo drivers, are marked 1/24 on the boxes!
As he also points out, and we all know, these scales are rather approximate anyway, and even the model of the Lotus is in doubt.
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