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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
If you do, grab a Type-C chip so you can run that car on the D132 track as well. ;-)
I definitely plan on getting Slot.it chips, unless I come across some D132 chips for almost free.

Question about running an O2 car on an analog track....

On analog tracks, track calls are implemented by removing power from the rails. I don't think that's the case with digital, is it? So if running an O2 chipped car on an analog track, what happens when power is removed, and then restored? Does the car sit there for a few seconds until the chip boots, and links to the controller? How about if the controller also has it's power removed and restored, as it would be if using an O2 cart plugged into track power?
 

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Greg Gaub
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The car will respond pretty much instantly when power comes back. The first thing it does on boot, which is instant, is listen for control signals from its paired controller. The controller boots up very quickly.

I've raced with an oXigen chipped car in an analog race by putting a bridge plug/wire on the controller station so that my lane got full power for my car. As mentioned by Tamar, though, if someone landed in my lane after coming out, aka a "rider" on my lane... they pretty much always came out on the following turn. Fortunately, this didn't often happen in the main straight. ;-)

That said, it was mainly for testing/showing off, and I was using a battery powered controller. There might be a perceptable lag between powering up and full control if both the car and controller are losing power and getting it back after a track call, or at the beginning of the race. You probably won't get the hole shot. When I'm racing analog, I generally race with an analog car and an analog cart in my controller.
 

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ParrotGod
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- oxigen cars have to run with a higher ride height to avoid short circuit with can damage the chip.
I do not let this influences the ride height of my cars. I make sure that the chip and the motor are properly insulated.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Last night, I ran my first race with Carrera GT's. I think I'm now going to attribute some of the sluggishness I felt on that D132 system to the cars. I had been running some laps with my Scaley 911 RSR, and someone wanted to run a GT race. We didn't have enough Scaley GT's for everybody, but we did with Carrera. I had to borrow a car, as all my GT's are Scaleys. The car I had felt way more sluggish than my Scaleys. And had way too much braking. I had my brakes set to zero, and still had too much braking. Everyone else felt the same way about braking. I tried a controller I use for HO that has coast, and that didn't work well either. The lowest coast setting resulted in way too little braking. I did some comparisons using my Magnet Marshal, too (yes, the club runs magnets). The Carrera's have way more downforce. That may figure into the braking effect. I also understand that Carrera's are designed for higher voltages. The track voltage was 14.4 (no, I don't know why they use that voltage). Maybe if we had cranked the voltage up, my impression might have have been different.
 

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Greg Gaub
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Carrera also have much stronger magnets than Scaley, because Carrera track rails are stainless steel, which has less of a magnetic pull than the nickel plated steel of Scalextric (and most other) track. A Carrera car on a Scaley track will stick like glue, and a Scaley car on a Carrera track will be loose, as compared to each brand on their own track. As stock out of the box, a Carrera car will generally have a considerably higher magnetic downforce than most other cars when compared on the same track/device. On top of all that, their cars are heavier than most other brands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
IMO, my Scaley GT (911 RSR) provided a much more enjoyable driving experience. It was faster (but I admit, power can be adjusted with track voltage), smoother, quieter, and the brake point (in distance from the turn) would be measured in feet, not inches as with the Carrera's. I was flat-out more with the Carrera. I had to do more driving with the Scaley (which I prefer). I'm definitely more of a fan of the Scaleys, and I'll be encouraging others in the club to get on the Scaley GT bandwagon.
 

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ParrotGod
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I am not sure what are you trying to say with this "attribute some of the sluggishness I felt on that D132 system to the cars.".

You used your HO controller from which I can only assume that you were running on analog on a (carrera??) track with an analog Carrera GT3 car.

So it was not D132, was it?

As for Carrera GT cars, if you remove the magnet and put some urethane or even slot.it P6 tyres you will see that they are really enjoyable cars.

What I like about Carrera GT3 cars is that you have a huge variety. Scalex does not have as many models as Carrera.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
In the first post of this thread, I mentioned how sluggish the cars were on the D132 system I was running. I was also Carrera cars. I recently ran and analog race with Carrera GT's, and they felt sluggish to me compared to my Scaley GT's. Without magnets, the impression might be completely different, but this club is quite attached to their traction magnets. Carrera may have more variety, but I prefer the driving dynamics of Scaley GT's, at least with traction magnets.
 

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Greg Gaub
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Well... wait until you try NSR, RevoSlot, Slot.it, and others. If you think there's a big difference between Carrera and Scalextric, prepare to have your mind blown. ;-)
 

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ParrotGod
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with or without a magnet?
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I have several Slot.it's, and one NSR. I know what they are, and what they are not. They are not low cost cars that you loan out without worrying that they will get damaged. They ARE smoother and faster than Scaleys, but speed isn't everything. I can get more speed with more track voltage, better tires, and stronger traction magnets (if that's your thing). Slot.it is my favorite. Among the "serious" slot cars (which, for me, are cars with motor pods), Slot.it is the value leader. But for value among all cars, I think Scalextric is the best right now. But I DO like how you can get any part you want for a Slot.it or NSR, while parts for Scaleys are hard to come by. Or... you just replace the broken parts with Slot.it parts.

What I don't like about Scaleys is how they vary so much over the same type car. I have a 911 RSR, and a Ford GT GTE. Same type car from the same era. One has an S-can motor, and one has a slim-can. They driver MUCH differently. The slim-can car has more acceleration and WAY more top speed, but much less brakes. These cars can compete against each other, but not well. Whether a track rewards top speed or braking will favor one or the other. And then there's the variation among s-cans....
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I just bought a few Predator 18K motors. I'm hoping that they will be more consistent.
 

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ParrotGod
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Remove the magnet and then you will that is not at all about the speed.

When the magnets are gone and the car has only to rely on tyres the true beauty of slot.it/NSR and hobby-grade slotcars will become more apparent: it is not about the speed it is more about the controllability and consistency that you can get with these brands.

You cannot get this with scalex and any other toy-grade cars.

The other thing to consider is that here in NZ the price of a scalex car is not that far off from a slot.it one.

So the bottom like: if you are happy with magnets and do not want to tune your cars, scalex makes sense. If you want to remove magnets, tune and put in some simple upgrade parts (braids, grub screws, etc) then slot.it is an excellent starting point.
 
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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
I am NOT at my happiest running with traction magnets, but that's what the local club likes. So I run those or I don't get to run anything. I take that back. I AM trying to introduce them to no-mag racing. I put together a set of IROC Slot.it no-mag Group C's. We run those every once in a while too. I AM making some inroads to the previously mag-only mindset, but it's slow going. I know that the toy-grade cars wont hold a candle to the Slot.it's and NSR in a no-mag configuration, but once you add traction magnets, it erases much of the advantage of such cars. In my mind, it doesn't make much sense to run Slot.it's, NSR's, etc with traction magnets. It wouldn't be taking advantage of the strengths of the car & chassis.
 

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Vendor
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Ah, Tamar, you read my mind. That was going to be my next question. Slight tangential question to your response.... do the oXigen chips use the same circuit as the SCP std analog cartridge? I posted a question recently on potential power loss in this cartridge due to not having full throttle contacts or a blast relay. I would think that the std analog cart and the digital chips would share the same circuit design.
Hi - from the horse's mouth but going by memory as I'm not the hw designer, and my fellow engineer is probably riding a bike at this time on a Saturday
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The only noticeable drop in power is due to the single diode (a schottky one) which is necessary on the oXigen chip. That is, you will loose about 0.4V on the oXigen chip compared to the track voltage.

The circuit which drives the motor in an O2 chip is different from that used in the standard analog cartridge. Actually, it depends on what you reference to as 'standard':

There's the 'home' racing cartridge SCP2011bc, designed for home and both (negative/positive) polarities:

http://catalogue.slot.it/product/product-details/?id=655&parent=643

This cartridge has a built in circuit with two sense resistors that, depending on the load of the motor, cause a voltage drop. Small, but it's there, and it's necessary to trigger the protection against short circuits.

2x50mOhm - in total 100mOhm. Drop is 0.1v per Amp of current.

and there's the high end so called 'metal' SCP201g, which withstands pretty much any motor you can throw at it:
http://catalogue.slot.it/product/product-details/?id=662&parent=643
This has no sense resistors and has no other voltage drop than the minimal negligible resistance of the 40A MOSFET.

The difference in performance between the two cartridges (home/metal) can be perceived by expert racers.

Now, comparing analog vs. O2 - take with a pinch of salt as I'm the person behind O2, so caveat emptor
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delay or response slugginess - I think none that can be detected, according to die hard analog racers

power drop - 0.4v, which is a factor

on the other hand an O2 chipped car will brake more than an analog car as there is almost zero resistance in the braking circuit (on board the car vs. on the controller)ì

To summarize, an O2 chipped car can be driven as well as an analog car, as far as delay is concerned, but due to the voltage drop will be slower compared to a car driven by a 'metal cartridge in an SCP controller due to the reduced voltage.

Difference is less, compared to the 'home' cartridge as that will depend on how much current the motor draws.

You can get the feeling if you trim your power supply by 0.4V on the rails.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Thanks, Mauricio. Good information.

There's the 'home' racing cartridge SCP2011bc, designed for home and both (negative/positive) polarities:

http://catalogue.slot.it/product/product-details/?id=655&parent=643

This cartridge has a built in circuit with two sense resistors that, depending on the load of the motor, cause a voltage drop. Small, but it's there, and it's necessary to trigger the protection against short circuits.

2x50mOhm - in total 100mOhm. Drop is 0.1v per Amp of current.
I have another data point. Tonight, the local club ran an IROC race, and I used my SCP with low current analog cartridge. I could tell that I was slightly down on power compared to other cars. Whatever lane I was in, that car was the slowest down the straights. Not by much. The track voltage, IMO, was low for these cars, and the cars were full throttle for much of the track, so the difference was magnified. On classes where you have to do more driving... i.e. less full throttle time... the SCP is at least as good as a good analog controller, as it is better, IMO, under braking, and accelerating out of corners. Next time I'll lobby for more voltage. I don't much care for racing where I pin the throttle at one point on the track, and leave it there for half a lap.
 
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