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QUOTE An object for children to play with

your calling grown women children?
oh.. er.. wrong forum.. erm let me go get my poncho!

Nuro, at the end of the day, to the family they are worthless, to you or I or anyone else, they are worth what we pay for them, sometimes this can be too much as we both know.

Now, how about we all meet up at the end of July for a sports day of slot car racing boys? no not a hobby day or a toy day a sports day!

Rob.
 

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Brian Ferguson
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Nuro, in essence I agree with you, especially the part about how our ability to enjoy leisure time has changed over past decades. Of course, that red Corvette (the one without the pace car id) could arguably be used to get to and from one's source of livelihood (hey, I'm trying to leave you an out for that one!)


But strict definitions can be "toyed" with here.


Websters offers the following as a definition for "toy":

QUOTE a copy that reproduces something in greatly reduced size

and the American Heritage Dictionary offers this for "reproduce":

QUOTE To produce a counterpart, image, or copy of

And the same dictionary defines "copies":

QUOTE To follow as a model or pattern

So, by strict definition, they may meet the definition of "toys" but they should also be "models" in a "greatly reduced size". If anyone cares to, they can look up model, pattern, etc. on their own as a homework assignment.


I'm not trying to be an ass, but the entire "toy", "model", "scale" debate has obviously caused some disharmony here. There is validity to all the viewpoints, and we all need to realize that the same slot car can be many things to many people. No one is wrong, and we are all right. Good grief, I keep coming back to "perspective".


So it isn't about arguing terms, it's about stating opinions in a careful and reasonable way, accepting the differing opinions of others, and maintaining civility in the process. If we do the latter, I don't see how anyone can have a complaint.
 

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hey I need a laugh.. it's those funny creatures that made me depressed!!!


gets poncho and runs out into the rain only to return seconds later for a more waterproof outfit
 

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DT
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Fergy,

You can't drive to work or go and see a client in a Corvette in Europe. Nobody would take you seriously. You wouldn't get the sale.

I tried it once. I phoned up before the meeting to see if they had secure parking. When I arrived in the Vette, it caused such a sensation, that we ended up talking about it more than my product. I didn't get the sale
 

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Brian Ferguson
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I here you! I had similar experiences in my 240Z that was basically race-prepped but was street licenced only because I never discontinued registering it. I occasionally drove it to work for fun, but had a few occasions when a senior manager or client needed to be taken to an off-site location. I didn't need to make a sale, and so I always had a ball
but it didn't always put a smile on my boss's face...


Just saw during post preview....

Sold????
 

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ya know what I said mate so I wont repeat it, Hope ya choose somethin that gives ya just as much fun.. (I'd suggest an E36 M3) walks off whistling

Rob
 

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Let's have another look at Nuro's list of definitionsQUOTE 1. An object for children to play with.
2. Something of little importance; a trifle.
3. An amusement; a pastime: thought of the business as a toy.
4. A small ornament; a bauble.
5. A diminutive thing or person.
6. A dog of a very small breed or of a variety smaller than the standard variety of its breed.
7. Scots. A loose covering for the head, formerly worn by women.
8. Chiefly Southern U.S. A shooter marble.
Let's discount the last three as they are very specific and clearly not applicable for our purpose.
Now let's compare slot cars with the rest.

1. An object for children to play with
If this is a low value car, if it is easily replaceable, if it is unimportant to YOU, then you might well permit children to play with it, in which case THIS car, to YOU is a toy. But if, at the other end of the scale, it is of relatively high value, not easily replaceable and of great importance to YOU, then you would be highly unlikely to let children play with it and then THIS car, to YOU is not a toy. But it's unlikely a child would perceive it any differently to the lower value car and to HIM, it remains a toy.
2. Something of little importance; a trifle.
This links strongly with the previous description - low value/worth and it's importance to YOU is the link. A trifle is a worthless triviality.
3. An amusement; a pastime: thought of the business as a toy.
Yet again, the the connotation is with value and importance and this is obviously specific to YOU. YOU might own the Queen Mary II and to YOU, it might well be a toy, but not to the vast majority of people!
4. A small ornament; a bauble.
Slot cars are not in any normal sense either of these. In any case, it's crystal clear that the word "bauble" means an object of low value or importance - pretty well worthless in any sense..
5. A diminutive thing or person.
Again, the word 'diminutive' as applied to a thing, rather than a person, strongly implies it to be of little (diminutive) importance or value, in any sense, to the person using the word.

What links all of these together, the common thread, is the relative importance or value invested in an item, by a particular person, and absolutely NOT whether it is essential to life. If essential to life were the simple criterion, then you could argue that virtually everything in the known universe was a 'toy' other than food, drink and oxygen and this is patent nonsense!

The word 'toy', in any sense one likes to take it, is clearly used to imbue something, anything, with low value/worth to the person who uses the word. It is not and cannot ever be a clear-cut, objectively defined word, but remains entirely subjective. Therefore no one can decree that all slot cars are toys - to some they are and to others they are not.

The bottom line is that slot cars can, of course, be trivial toys to some people and to others, those very same model cars can be of great personal worth or value, whether in monetary terms or in any other terms that are important to THEM. The problem is this - if those who regard ANYTHING, not just slot cars, as 'baubles' insist on enforcing their personal definition on the others, it is tantamount to them describing those other PEOPLE as of little worth, and that is why it sometimes, understandably becomes heated and personal.

As Dave Allen used to say, "May YOUR God go with you".
I liked Dave - a lot.
He may have been a comedian, but he possessed great innate wisdom.
 

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QUOTE The bottom line is that slot cars can, of course, be trivial toys to some people

I don't think anyone has used the word 'trivial' at all in the arguement, although I do agree to an extent about QUOTE to some they are and to others they are not..

Incidentally, if they are not toys.........what are they?

Aaron
 

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QUOTE Incidentally, if they are not toys.........what are they?

motile scale replicas...

moving controllable models...

shelf collectibles...

investments...

customisable hobby items...

objects of desire...

racing machines...

sporting devices...

adult entertainment...

lucrative commodities...

source of frustration...

list is endless really
 

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quote:
motile scale replicas...

moving controllable models...

shelf collectibles...

investments...

customisable hobby items...

objects of desire...

racing machines...

sporting devices...

adult entertainment...

lucrative commodities...

source of frustration...

list is endless really
end quote

... toys then in other words


//p
 

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Call 'em what you will. Fergy has a point about it all being about perspective. From the "Toy" manufacturers perspective...they are product.

Sell More Product = Make More Money

regards,

Bob S.
 
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Aaron,
Original rail cars and some perfect very early slot are important treasures from the past that not only show us what slot/rail cars from those years were like but make a statement about what life was like in that time. This raises them well above the level of toys.

RR
 

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QUOTE I don't think anyone has used the word 'trivial' at all in the argument
No one had, until that point and it was needed for helpful clarification.
It's a very appropriate word for something of little worth (to the user of the word).
It supports the other words such as trifle, bauble, low worth, little value, insignificant.

I don't see this discussion as an argument, to be won or lost, but simply as clarification of the principle that people are individuals and are entitled to their individual beliefs and values. It can only become an argument when someone else tries to impose their individual beliefs and values on everyone else, when someone effectively says,
"Your values are worthless and mine are the only ones that matter".
That is why the Dave Allen reference is so appropriate.
 

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As I`ve posted previously I see us as similar to a bunch of mates sitting in the pub and spinning the stuff. We are all passionate to some degree but no argument or disrespect meant to anyone. There many view points exspressed here which I think is great. Be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything and it`s not as important as some of the bigger issues in life so I for one find all this entertaining. Have fun guys wether it`s a toy, an investment, collectable or as in Ints situation , a realistic substitute for a female part that vibrates enough to make him smile !
Jeff pint of orenge juice it is then, well done on saying the word Toy, I`m happy now!!
 

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To be honest, I always refer to and think of my slot cars and track and buildins and people as 'toys'

But I do object to people saying 'stop moaning about the shape and scale, they are only toys'

For some people, its the speed that matters and they build wierd wing cars with no front wheels

For others, they want the cars to look 'nice' and drive well

For others, scale and shape to a fairly decent degree DOES matter.

I'm am one of the last category.

I respect peoples opinions, and if they are in a different category, fine.

But why do people complain when the people who do care about shape and size express our opinions? I really like to hear from the others on the forum who share my priorities, as well as others views. If you don't mind the unrealistic proportions, just say that you like the model as it is, you don't have to put us down. And as I said before, to Aaron, it would be good if Fly was aware that there are SOME but not all people who the accuracy of shape is important.
 
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