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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There seemed to be some ruddy great big black box things plugged in to the control sockets at Phoenix and even Integrale looked like a member of the Borg Collective from Star Trek with his box and cables wrapped around him.

Is this not cheeting?


The theory is that you can store power that you are not using to control the car on the curves to give your car a boost down the straight bits.

I noticed lots of knob twiddling during the racing though and this has got to be a distraction in a 10 lap race.

Is it worth it and should clubs allow these devices?


Moped
 

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Allan Wakefield
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We would not allow them, what's the point?
Just learn to drive better IMHO.

Possibility is that we will only allow (well maintained) Club supplied Controllers or Club tested standard customers controllers at Swiss Race Bahn. What will they be? Parma Economy, 25 and 40 Ohm.
 

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too true moped
weve only just found out that you can use different throttles to scalextric and now after sunday weve found out we have to start fiddling with our knobs
my lads only 8 and isnt that a little early in life to be wfiddling with your knob
from a distraught father
 

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I don't know what rules you were playing to but surely capacitors in controllers is a no-no. Everyone has to have 'em or no one does.

You sure they weren't just tweaking their brakes with that extra knob?
 

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I would imagine adjustable brakes for 1 control - would you exclude the new fly pro controller and electonic controllers too? Some clubs do.

Capacitors only make any difference at all in 2 circumstances - if the PSU is poorly regulated or underpowered (unlikely in a good club), and if the rules mean power is cut at the end of the race and position is determined by where the car stops (the capacitor will provide a bit of power in this circumstance). At pheonix, power was not cut at the ends of the races, so the capacitors would make no difference
 

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Graham Windle
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The majority of the black box thingys as you put it are for adjusting resistance and brakes not for storing power to make you go faster that is a different thing all together , Put in to simple terms it is a smoothing capacitor we had this discusion a couple of weeks ago , sure the addition of a capacitor does give you a bit of extra go in some cases ie if the power supply is unsmoothed ,but the main function of a black box is so you dont need to carry round a selection of controllers when one will do Try driving a scale auto 35k on 60 ohms and then on 25 youll soon see the reason Its not cheating just making the thing drivable Same thing applys to an electronic handle or a diode handle , just banging more volts into your car does not a winner make . it just makes it harder to controll
QUOTE Possibility is that we will only allow (well maintained) Club supplied Controllers
Enforcing a rule like this doesnt cater for the driver who likes a thumb handle a controler should and always has been a personal extension of the driver and provided it does no harm to the track wiring then should be allowed ,more often than not it is the track that has been incorrectly wired ( I could site examples here but wont)that create the problems. For the uk if all clubs follow BSCRA standard wiring as has been laid down for 40 yrs then there is no problem.
 

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I had 2 black boxes

1 was a cap the other a control box.

the control box lets me have 4 controllers in one as it gives me a 15,25,35 and 45 ohm option, the other knob was for braking, this lets me turn the braking down to stop me locking the transmission. a ha!

the other box was in my pocket and was plugged in using the suspicious lead coming from the top of the controller, I did not actually use the box during the day because it would not have given me any advantage..

anyway object seems to have been acheived.

oh the control box will cost you all of £25 from slot-tech, the controller is extra however, very good cost saving whatsit
 

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Capacitors only work on an unregulated power supply, where you can suck as much power as you want, like from a battery (I think). Phoenix was regulated, so you'll notice that they didn't have they're extra black box up top.

The bottom black box with the knobs controls ohmage and brakes. Ohmage can only be set to 15, 25, 35, 45, 55 or 60 as far as I know. And you can buy all of these from Parma. So really all they are doing is saving money and reduceing the number of controllers that they need (PM anyone?).

The variable brakes is a good idea, but only for motors like the RX4 or RX8 where there is too much braking anyway. With the non-magnet cars that where being run by the 'black boxers' I suspect all of the brake knobs were set to full.

The braking ciruit if easy enough so that even you could do it moped,
. Simply cut the brake wire on your controller and insert a potetiometer, which is readily available from Maplins. 100ohms should do.

Lotus
 

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mine was actually set at .6 to be picky


Mope, it's 25 quid speak to jim and sort one out, you'd be surprised and had you ask I would have let you have a go of mine
 

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Hi

This will bring out the "control freeks"...oh I don't mean the ones that want to have a better controller. It will bring out the guys who feel they need to dictate every part of everyone elses racing. Imagning a litle tooth brush mustache "You MUST use THIS motor, THIS car, THIS controller, and Most of all you must not do anything that might indicate you might be fast".

The "borg black box" allows a driver to suit his driving style, it usually also includes a heat sink to keep everything cool
And it is OLD SCHOOL. These days, everyting is doable cheap in the Professor Motor controller without all the sinsister looking bits.

Fate
 

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I guess in a box standard race, they should not be allowed, but in a customise/tweak your car race, the controller is part of the car as much as brakes are part of a 1:1 car
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
QUOTE a ha!

Inte, you are beginning to sound a bit like Alan Partridge!


The point of view to permit variable resistance seems reasonable so there can't really be any club objections can there.

On balance that seems permisible as an extension to your controller if the device is legal and does not interfer with the other lanes.

Unless you can also take over the control of everybody else of course! It would not surprise me in this digital age if some disguised gizmo can do this so should club managers check these things out before permitting them to be used?

Not too sure about their use for any other purpose though, even the variable brake thing, as that surely has to be an all or nothing situation.

Cheers
Moped
 

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QUOTE (moped rider @ 29 Mar 2004, 16:40)There seemed to be some ruddy great big black box things plugged in to the control sockets at Phoenix and even Integrale looked like a member of the Borg Collective from Star Trek with his box and cables wrapped around him.
Er...No that's just Inte's haircut!!


As we speak I'm awaiting my UNPA (unlicenced nuclear particle accelerator) controller with optional Cold Fusion overdrive module...well it was in the catalogue and looked cool (blue anodised aluminium casing)!

This threads falling into the hands of luddism (luddite-ism) it seems. Ooh,, black box with knobs on it! verily it doth look like witchcraft, sire! Burn it!!


As has been rightly stated on this and other threads, it's old school, caps don't work on a regulated supply, if the supply is unregulated then the caps help protect the motor against AC ripple.


Are they unfair? No. Just get one when you can, if you wish. I currently use a standard Parma 25 ohm controller and my Indy F1 is a front row contender against racers with adjustable brakes and resistance.

So as far as I'm concerned and yes this post is MY opinion, I don't care if they've got black boxes - I can still beat some of them, some of the time


Mark.
 

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Well said Mark, I agree fully. Also Fate makes a good point. Adjustability is good, there should be more adjustables...

Looks like we'll be hearing from the man himself any minute now...

Lotus

PS. Inte, maybe if it was set to 100% you'd have beaten me...
 

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Well lads. First of all the black boxes didn`t give an advantage and the point about twiddling during the race being a handicap is perhaps true.

The winning driver was a home advantage kiddie but if you watched the Phoenix lads cars closely then you would have noticed the following... Standard controllers. Not one `off in` the race. No sweeping back end, P1 Darbs car goes as fast around the curves as on the straights and the back end is always straight. No wobble at the back end due to picking the straightest axle that you can find. Making sure the wheel mounts the axle at a central point, hub trued first and then the tyres. Choosing the right moment to overtake, the blue flag indicator does help too!

The power was on 21 volts sending 1 amp per lane regulated and smooth. Independant lane power so no lane could interfere with another. How you set your brakes is a personal choice, you still gotta drive that car the fastest to be the winner and that`s down to driver skill. The best driver won.
 

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Ah, sire!
Look upon how the grand warlock, Sir Inte of Tweek doth try and weasel himself out of this one. Gaze upon that innocent looking countenance. One could scarcely believe that behind such an exterior lurketh a brain the very machinations of which doth verily make my lower intestine clench. Such are the heretical atrocities he doth visit upon his poor cars of slot!



Sorry Inte! Happy tweeking my friend
Keep exploring the boundaries of the rules - we know your heart's in the right place


Mark.
 

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blue flag my arse!

I was going to get lapped by a black audi, sat next to me for half a lap and I slewed to let him by he sat next to me so I thought sod this and beggered off leaving him.

I heard I was 12th overall, that being 4th fastest away driver, how I dont know.

Jonny, the box can be seen as 2 things, a cost saving exercise in the long term and in the short term the ability to adjust the car or tune it without having to sacrifice progress.

as I say I have 4 controllers in 1 with the avaliability of being able to tweek the severity of the brakes, at £25 what is there to lose?
 

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"So `Grasshopper` when you learn to give way under blue flag you not get stop/go penalty"....that`s a stop/go you owe me then matey! I didn`t catch them all cos the room was so crowded and I missed a few but I`ll get you next time. I was being a nice guy as there were so many vi8sitors but now you`ve been once then you are part of the family and are entitled to be abused up to the full membership standard!

I have no problem with the black boxes,it makes sense in economic terms. I`ve just pointed out that clearly they do not give you an advantage. Getting to the event on saturday and taking part in the Saturday morning and evening races would have and did help those that turned up early as they learned the track better and got more racing experience on a new track. Everyone (Peter?) got going better after a few races and you seemed to gain confidence as the event went on.

The mob I served in used to get asked how come they are so good? The answer was always "We practise, then we practise again, then have another practise then to make sure ,we practise agin and again.."
 
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