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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Forgive me Father for I have sinned, its been more than 6 months since my last slotcar confession
innocent.gif

Sure I have posted on the forum, commented on other people's project, even got involved with the design of what could become a pretty little Digital Track and...a pretty big one.
But with no racing in the foreseeable future there was absolutely no motivation to work on slotcars, let alone make slotcar posts. My workbench has been collecting dust ever since the 3rd Covid lockdown.
But like last year when spring starts springing, with racing oppertunities shimmering in the summer...ideas and fingers have started to itch once again.

So..this topic is a spin of/follow up on DrC's Aston Martins: which one drives best but, where his started with the comparison between Scalex old and new Vantage GT3 in stock form...
...this thread will compare two of Scalextic's new AMR Vantage GT3's build to both DiSCA GT3 and GT LM specs.
So those of you that wanted to have that "step by step build guide" this will be the one for you to follow.

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As for these builds we (Supervlieg & me) will use the 3DP chassis that we've been developing together with Stefan Nalbach (ProSpeed) for both classes.
One will be a light and nimble (almost) Sidewinder configuration with a small can MX16, the other a Scaleauto Baby Sprinter motorized AW configuration with lots of torque to haul the extra weight of its "big block" around the track.
Once we've finished these cars we'll (Covid permitting) head for the SRC Eindhoven track to test both of them with a new 10x21mm酶 Slot.it P6 compound and Scaleauto's 9x 20,75mm酶 Procomp4.
And although the title may suggest differently... the ultimate goal that we've set ourselves is to be able to answer that question with:... both!馃お

Aston Martin Vangate GTE/GT3 by AMR
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If you're small and lack the (budget) size and punch of the "big boys", but still want to play hard ball with them....you've got to be smart.
As a manufacturer of top of the line GT sportscars, the top tier category to display your product has to be a works team in the WEC FIA GTE class, yet the majority of sales for customer race cars will be in GT3.
So when AMR started the design of the "new" Vantage based racer they did it in a way that would allow them to eat their cake and have it, one basic chassis design easily converted from GTE to GT3 and back.
How easy, well in 2018 during the development of the GT3, AMR needed to attend a GTE test but all the factory cars were en route by ship to an overseas event.
So they took one of the factory GT3 cars and converted it to GTE spec in less than 5 hrs, did the GTE test and converted it back to GT3 spec and trucked it back in time for a VLN outing. (for the full story on Dailysportscar.com click here)
Customer teams benefit from this smart design as well as AMR offers an "upgrade package" for their clients that allows them to run in both GT3 and GTE spec with the same chassis.
A cost reduction that save teams some 拢200k GBP.
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This option has allowed the ambitious British TF Sport to run client programs in various classes all over the globe. (British GT, VLN, European & Asian Le Mans series, IMSA GTD and WEC GTE)
After 2 years of development to overcoming BoP inflicted challenges the Vantage has become a very potent package,
claiming not only the WEC world championship but also GTE Pro and Am class wins in the LM 24hrs and the British GT Championship on the trot.

Aston Martin Vangate GTE/GT3 by Scalextric
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So when Scalextric announced they would bring out the AMR Vantage I guess a lot of you hit that pre-order button. I didn't ...until I saw pictures of the actual car.
A lot has been said about this car, stunning looks, spot on scale dimensions and, even though I don't have a home track or run stock cars, no doubt a good runner straight out of the box.
Nice clean chassis design, no portruding detail parts that hinder body float. The AMR may run on its front wheels, but the guide is low and deep enough to ensure good braid contact.
DPR hatch makes it digital ready, working lights etc. etc.
Some items most people don't tend to mention when talking about the body design is the interior and the way the cockpit, roll cage, windows, rear wing and other details are mounted, also very nice and well thought out.
Love the way how Scalex shaped the delicate rear light cluster by integrating it with the whole of the bootlid, smart thinking on the rear valence and how its mounted on the diffuser.
All fits like a glove and detail parts are easy to dis and re-assemble without breaking them, a handy feature for someone who wants to transform this nice toy...and prep it for a bit a more serious playing field.
So @ Simon if you're reading this, please convey my compliments to the design team.
And Simon...while you're at it, could you also ask them to please take the same route for the announced "upgrade" of the AMG GT3 to 2018 spec? Specially the "spot on scale dimensions" part?
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Aston Martin Vangate GT3 by...me
As mentioned earlier Steven V (Supervlieg) and I will each build a car based on the Scalex AMR with a ProSpeed Chassis.
Stefan Nalbach already had 3DP chassis in his range for the AMR Vantage with stock Slot.it and NSR pods, which even incorporated mounting the Scalex designed rear valance to be mounted on the 3DP diffuser.
So "all" he had to do was flip the chassis for, what he calls the SRN pod, so our DiSCA spec GT3 chassis has the pinion on the left, allowing the "timed" Scaleauto Baby Sprinter motor to run in the "right" direction.
The GTE/GTLM spec chassis required a bit more work, but basically was a task of transplanting the pod and diffuser design we did for the BMW M8 GTE into the AMR chassis design.
Now those "spot on scale dimensions" of the Scalex Vantage body ensure there's plenty of room for your rubber to be mounted under the 64mm wide wheel arches, but also makes the body taper down to 55mm at the doors.
Which means some material needs to be removed from the body to make room for the 52mm wide NSR AW pod based suspensions mounts on the GT3 chassis.
With the narrower 49mm wide SW pod for the GT LM/ GTE chassis this is much less off an issue.
As Steven was a bit anxious to cut through his nice AMR body to make room for the GT3 chassis and I had already build a GT LM/GTE chassis..I will be doing the GT3.

But...as I have (an acknowledged) wheel fetish, I can't start a project in a proper way, without some good matching wheels.
Normally when doing a Scalex conversion I just pull the wheels of the stock chassis as they are nicely detailed, but remember what I wrote on "detail parts are easy to dis and re-assemble without breaking them"?
Well for some reason this didn't apply to the wheels. Normally a delicate but forceful pull and twist is al it takes to pry the wheels of Scalex serrated axles...but on the AMR the required force meant no more delicacy.
I stopped pulling before totally deforming the axle mounts and headed for my parts bin.
The wheels from my abandoned Sideways BMW M6 project were a perfect match for the Scalex AMR Vantage,
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If cloths maketh the man, wheels maketh the car, 20,2mm酶 at the front and 20,8mm酶 at the rear, a bit undersized for the huge wheel arches of the Sideways BMW M6.. but a great match for the Scalex AMR Vantage.
:giggle:

BODY PREP, A RARE ACT OF CAUTION
Must be because there's no deadline to finish the car for a race "next week" but normally I don't have the time...or patience to do this.
But in order to protect that lovely matt blue metallic finish of the #47 TF Sport from scratches, chemicals, glue or oil, my acidic fingers might transfer onto the body...
...the second step was to dis-assemble all the detail parts and give the bare body some protective coats of clear.
A gentle wash with a mild detergent, a quick blast with clean air to blow off any dust particles and a first thin coat of Mr Hobby's Acrylic Clear coat.
This is my go to clear when I'm not sure how factory paint, decals or tampo prints will react to a stronger 2K or cellulose based clear.
I managed to restrain myself for 4 hours before applying the second misted layer ...and a full day... 馃槆
...before applying a 3rd coat with the cellulose based and as such petrol and oil resistant semi gloss Mr Super Clear.
As the semigloss dried to a shinier finish than the original Scalex finish, I will most likely add a 4th coat of Mr Super Clear matt when the car is finished.

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That's it for now...

to be continued

With kind regards
Tamar 馃槆
 

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I have a Scalextric C2790 Aston Martin DBR9 which many years ago (2007/8) I built to my interpretation of some European GT class specs. ( I thought I had a copy of the regs but…)

It is still a stock DB9 but with a slot.it yellow (GT spec) motor and a starter kit rear axle (stock gearing)

I found the stock chassis a bit restrictive so I trimmed off the 1:1 car aero so that the body can move.

It is very smooth and run too well for laps and beer.
 

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Thank you Tamar, will be following your build progress with great interest. Think I might have to get that no.47 TF Sport... not that I will be building along with you, as I suspect you have a serious set of slot car modelling skills to call upon that would leave my effort looking a bit sorry!

Incidentally I also have the Carrera Vantage but... have yet to use it in any type of meaningful way so cannot comment. Lovely model though.
 

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Well, with Tamar taking action on this topic, now this has turned a most interesting one.

Guess many of us will be following the process🙂

I have one doubt Tamar, in slot GT3 class is faster and competitive than Gte class or is it the other way?

Cheers
 

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I have built and raced one of these converted to our local DiSCA interpretation of the rules for GT3 (baby motor and NSR rubber on the rear) and it is a very solid car.

The body is relatively lightweight and with a bit of work can easily go down to 12.4 gr. There is a bit more that can go but I hit 20.4 gr with my own lexan interior and lights in, so not too shabby (the target for the class is 19 gr for the body).

In my entry I am using the TA71 3dp chassis: this has some of the details in the front (grill) and rear lower body already molded in which reduce the amount of weight from the body.

If you want to hit the min body weight then you will need to take this into account if using the pro-speed chassis that does not include this detail in the back.

Just to note that in mine I am still using the original rear wing: a 3dp one can save another 1 gr.

Another good set of inserts is the one from the scaleauto z4: the set has also nice brake disks.

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Well, with Tamar taking action on this topic, now this has turned a most interesting one.

Guess many of us will be following the process

I have one doubt Tamar, in slot GT3 class is faster and competitive than Gte class or is it the other way?

Cheers
The GT3 will be quicker because the scaleauto is a crazy motor (it is not near to 18K...even in wrong/left configuration). But the GTE will be nimbler and controllable and overall a more consistent ride: this is what you want for long races.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I have a Scalextric C2790 Aston Martin DBR9 which many years ago (2007/8) I built to my interpretation of some European GT class specs. ( I thought I had a copy of the regs but…)
It is still a stock DB9 but with a slot.it yellow (GT spec) motor and a starter kit rear axle (stock gearing)
I found the stock chassis a bit restrictive so I trimmed off the 1:1 car aero so that the body can move.
It is very smooth and run too well for laps and beer.
The "old " DBR9, still one of my favorite cars from the 00's there's a good review of the DBR9 somewhere on the "old slotforum"
And it also shows where compared to 5-10 years ago Scalextric has made progress when it comes to their car/chassis/body design.
The DBR9 had most of the underbody as and integral part of the chassis making body float nearly impossible (unless you were satisfied with floating half your body)
No such thing for the AMR Vantage, body float even in stock configuration...easy as pie.

Thank you Tamar, will be following your build progress with great interest. Think I might have to get that no.47 TF Sport... not that I will be building along with you, as I suspect you have a serious set of slot car modelling skills to call upon that would leave my effort looking a bit sorry!

Incidentally I also have the Carrera Vantage but... have yet to use it in any type of meaningful way so cannot comment. Lovely model though.
Well Wayward, no need to get distracted by your self proclaimed lack of slot car modeling skills. The stock Scalex Vantage is as good as it gets, I would have a hard time matching the level of finish they've put in the box.
As for the required skills to mate the Scalex body to the GT3 ProSpeed 3DP chassis..these as I hope this topic will show..are no more than your basic slotrace 101.
Simple( r) to build and fun to race was also our philosophy when we started up this second DiSCA GT class. We wanted something less complicated and more "off the shelf" than DiSCA GT/LM.
But there plenty of room for both approaches (and anything in between) in our hobby.

I love my Carrera 1:32 Aston Martin Vantage GTE. By far, my favourite car.

Lovely work, well done.
Wayward & Charlie, you did read the original Aston Martins which one drives best topic did you? The first Vantage I bought was a Carrera, indeed another lovely model.
Would be a very hard decision if you had to choose between them just based on looks.
Ok maybe not that hard, the Carrera is just that tiny bit chunkier and compared to that gobsmacking matte finish of the Scalex..a bit too plastic.
But...and this is actually very interesting they are nearly identical, in size and shape...look.
Automotive tire Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Tire Violet

So after reading your replies, I took another good look at the Carrera Vantage, unscrewed the body and behold..with some minor adjustments..it fits the ProSpeed GT3 Chassis.
Ok the body screw posts won't match, the Carrera has 4 of them, needed to cut the left rear as it was in the way of the AW spur, which was one of the reasons we went for the Scalex body in this test.
But the wheels base and stance, their near identical... and look
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The Scalex rear valance above the GT3 diffuser is an almost perfect fit for the Carrera GTE body how weird is that:lmfao:

Well actually not that weird at all, when big companies like Hornby and Carrera want to do a specific slotcar they need to go through the official channels. Meaning requiring an official license from the car manufacturer.
As such they will receive the original 3D model data of the licensed car. Both Scalex and Carrera will in general reduce the data to 1/32nd scale and only alter the data where needed for the injection mould tooling.
So it actually makes sense that both their Vantages ended up nearly identical and pretty much true to scale.
Had the Vantage been released by NSR or Sideways....there could have been more differences ;)

But as the Carrera Vantage has such identical dimensions and has all but one ( wrong type of wheels) of the GTE features, that I would otherwise have to scratch build for the Scalex Body...
Maybe this topic will grow from a "tete at tete" between Scalex GT3' on different ProSpeed chassis...to a "M茅nage 脿 trois" with the Carrera GTE.

to be continued

With kind regards
Tamar
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
I have built and raced one of these converted to our local DiSCA interpretation of the rules for GT3 (baby motor and NSR rubber on the rear) and it is a very solid car.
The body is relatively lightweight and with a bit of work can easily go down to 12.4 gr. There is a bit more that can go but I hit 20.4 gr with my own lexan interior and lights in, so not too shabby (the target for the class is 19 gr for the body).
In my entry I am using the TA71 3dp chassis: this has some of the details in the front (grill) and rear lower body already molded in which reduce the amount of weight from the body.
If you want to hit the min body weight then you will need to take this into account if using the pro-speed chassis that does not include this detail in the back.
Just to note that in mine I am still using the original rear wing: a 3dp one can save another 1 gr.
Another good set of inserts is the one from the scaleauto z4: the set has also nice brake disks.
Hello Gio, nice of you to join in with your TA71 chassied Vantage, a job well done, no doubt its a runner.
True that the Prospeed chassis doesn't have the rear valance incorporated in the GT3 design. Stefan usually sticks very close to the original manufacturer design,
so on his GT3 chassis the stock Scalex rear valance fits like a glove.
But there are plans to create this part in 3DP as well so you can glue it into the body..which would be even better ;)

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As for the 3DP rear wing, Steven has already drawn and printed it in 3D, not the full gram you're aiming for, more like 0,8 gram, and you'll add 0,3 -0,4 gram of primer, paint and decals to get the finish of the stock wing.
I will sand down the underside of my stock wing and mount it on rubber supports, target for the whole wing would be 1 gram. But lets not get to far ahead.
A small side note: for this test the target minimum body weight will be 22gr for both GT3 and GTE bodies. Its more important for the test that they are the same than at their class minimum.... and its less work.

To be or not to be (faster)...that is the question
Well, with Tamar taking action on this topic, now this has turned a most interesting one.
Guess many of us will be following the process🙂
I have one doubt Tamar, in slot GT3 class is faster and competitive than Gte class or is it the other way?
The GT3 will be quicker because the scaleauto is a crazy motor (it is not near to 18K...even in wrong/left configuration). But the GTE will be nimbler and controllable and overall a more consistent ride: this is what you want for long races.
Well GD that is the million dollar question isn't it? That's what this topic aims to find out and test.
Under the current regulations and type of events I would agree, in general, with Gio.
At the events where both classes raced on the same track (Rockingham, Suzuka and Barcelona) the Chrono showed GT3's were faster than the GTE's over a single lap.
For instance at Suzuka the lap record (in a race) for a GT/LM GTE car is 11,66 where as the GT3 record is 11,38 sec.
Competition I would say is stronger in GT3, shorter races with fewer drivers on one car (and as such the possibility of stronger pairings of hot drivers) tend to spice thing up.
At least a bit more than the longer endurance events where (like in real live) the GTE/GTLM class is generally the domain for lets say more Gentleman racers..maybe we should introduce a Pro and Am class.;)

But (again like in real live) there's also a BoP (Balance of Performance) in place for both classes that results in differences between the two.
For the DISCA WEC endurances, with its more "open" tech regulations, the GTE performance is linked with that of the LMP2 and LMP1 class.
In fact the min body weight for GTLM in the 2020 regs was increased from 19gr to 22gr as there were remarks on the GTLM class being too competitive. (3 out of 9 editions of the DiSCA LM 24hrs won overall by teams running a GT)

For DiSCA GT3 there's a more"off the shelf" set of tech regulations.
Here the BoP is regulated by a homologation parts list that specifies per car (model) what means (vacformed interiors and or vacformed interiors & windows) are allowed to reduce the (body) weight.
As most "stock" GT3 slot cars have a AW boxer motor configuration we picked that as the standar for the GT3 class. So they are by nature heavier than a short can SW GTE/ GTLM.
We also did not want the GT3 performance to be too dependent on the Motor Magnets so instead of going for a NSR (Baby) King or Evo we picked the Scaleauto Baby Sprinter as our spec hand out motor.
To give the GT3 good grip we tested several Rubber and Sponge compounds, finally settling on handout RTR 9 x 20,6 mm酶 Scaleauto Procomp3 sponge shod wheels.
Last but not least, in the original spec for GT3 we intended to run them at 10,5 -11v max...but you know how it goes with slotracers... they always want more speed.
So in general the GT3 will race at the same 12v as the WEC cars...which accounts for a substantial part of the (un-intended) difference in performance between GT3 and GTE/GT LM.

to be continued...

With kind regards
Tamar
 

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OH OH! I have to answer a question!! Yikes!

Yes! lol, I read the link. Very nice. My version is slightly different than yours. See below ...

Wheel Tire Vehicle Car Hood


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... SNIP ...

Wayward & Charlie, you did read the original Aston Martins which one drives best topic did you? The first Vantage I bought was a Carrera, indeed another lovely model.
Would be a very hard decision if you had to choose between them just based on looks.
Ok maybe not that hard, the Carrera is just that tiny bit chunkier and compared to that gobsmacking matte finish of the Scalex..a bit too plastic.
But...and this is actually very interesting they are nearly identical, in size and shape...look.
attachicon.gif
Scalex-vs_Carrera.png
So after reading your replies, I took another good look at the Carrera Vantage, unscrewed the body and behold..with some minor adjustments..it fits the ProSpeed GT3 Chassis.
Ok the body screw posts won't match, the Carrera has 4 of them, needed to cut the left rear as it was in the way of the AW spur, which was one of the reasons we went for the Scalex body in this test.
But the wheels base and stance, their near identical... and look
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Scalex-vs_Carrera02.png
The Scalex rear valance above the GT3 diffuser is an almost perfect fit for the Carrera GTE body how weird is that:lmfao:

... SNIP ...

to be continued

With kind regards
Tamar
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Yep, also a nice car Charly, same (GTE) car, same body but with a different (GT3) livery.

One area where the Carrera Vantage beats Scalex hands down...is the interior cockpit and driver detail.
My Vantage was an analoge car, maybe those two big lumps in the Scalex interior are to make room for the SSD digital chip...I don't know.

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Now the Carrera interior...much more defined dash, driver position further back (although Scalex driver's arms in more realistic pose) Nice safety net and you absolutely must love the helmet detail.

Maybe like Top Gear...Scalex prefers to have the Stig driving all their cars?
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With kind regards

Tamar
 

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I have to say that Carrera interiors are really good in general.

They are even better than hobby-grade brands and they are really good for making your vac-formed ones.

For my vantage build, i have vacformed the scalex one. But once I get hold of a carrera vantage I might use theirs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That's the fun of "Scratch building" and modifying, I will combine both into one. Outer shape, dimensions and parcel shelf of the Scalex, transplant dash, driver, helmet seat and safety net of the Carrera.
Maybe give him a groin, some knees......Frankenstein rides again.
Although a very resent development may result in some delays for this project
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with kind regards
Tamar
 

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Hahahaha...already some delays? ;p

In all honesty, I would like to see some updates on the M8....I might even be temped to get one from Pendle...

Coming back to your vantage, two points:

- 0,5 gr plus for the paint and primer??? Come on Tamar, after two coats of Tamiya primer, one coat of automotive filler/primer, and two coats of semi-matt black on the conti the extra weight I have added is 0,5gr.

- I am not sure why having the rear valance on the body is better: at the end of the day, the rear of the body is going to sit squarely on the rear of the chassis. Whether is the body/valance+chassis interface or body+valance/chassis interface should not matter.
 

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Ok just 24hrs later and change of plan (what a surprise) SV8GTE has been shelved once again in favor of running the Scalex #47 Aston Martin Vantage GT3.
So attention will shift, but only from me building the GT3 to me and Steven both building the GTLM chassis required for participation in the Rockingham 6hrs on July 17/18th.
With "just" 10 weeks to prepare, even with the bodies and chassis as they are right now...still plenty of work to do before we'll be able to "Rumble at Rockingham"

to be continued

With kind regards
Tamar

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