Autonomous driven ghost - why did they fail as products?

2620 Views 29 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Yattr, Apr 29, 2022

Felix1024

Discussion Starter · Apr 11, 2022

Hi Chaps,

I am a mature student doing an honours project on remote presence and play and using Scalextric or slot-car racing in general as a metric. I have seen that there have been a few manufacturer made ghost car systems but most didn't last long before being discontinued. I wondered if the folk on this forum had any thoughts or insider knowledge as to why that might be?

I refer to Scalextric Challenger (only seemed to be on sale for a couple of years), Pacer, Anki Overdrive. Carrera have a ghost car system but it seems from what I can tell to be quite simplistic as well as the Scorpius version.

There also seems to be a Scalextric online game for Xbox and Nintendo which bombed and although Scorpius mentioned in a 2009 post, an online element to there product, this doesn't appear to have happened. Mario Kart has a neat ghost system and some other video games have them like Gran Turismo.

What do you think?

Thanks
Felix

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

MrFlippant

· #2 · Apr 11, 2022

Because in the real world, tires get dirty, motors get warm, and the playback of the recording is no longer reliable. Or, a simple system is set at a fixed speed, and therefore cannot be set to go faster than the turn requiring the slowest speed to navigate.

Video games don't have to deal with the real world.

Ade

· #3 · Apr 11, 2022

Scorpius achieved it years ago,thanks to using their lane brain 👍🏼..

You can see one car deliberately stopping while the ghost car chooses its own route round it ..

Reactions: 2

Ade

· #4 · Apr 11, 2022 (Edited)

Smart Car Link ..

Ghost recalibrates at every Lane Brain 👍🏼, sector timing also a breeze.

Reactions: 2

RikoRocket

· #5 · Apr 11, 2022

Not seen that in action before, really impressive...

Reactions: 1

Felix1024

Discussion Starter · #6 · Apr 12, 2022

Thanks for this. I hadn't found what Lane Brain actually did so far.

MrFlippant

· #7 · Apr 12, 2022

To be clear, as I understand it, it's not the Scorpius Lane Brain that's doing the real work. It's reporting to the Scorpius Wireless RMS which lane of which Lane Brain the cars most recently passed over. It's the RMS that's playing back the recorded lap, and changing the ghost car's lane in order to avoid the other car that has not passed over another Lane Brain as it's expected to. Overall, it's the most clever system to date that I'm aware of.

Minardi

· #8 · Apr 12, 2022 (Edited)

For the sake of your study you should also have a look at RCS64 pacecars. I think for a system with only one calibration point, we did quite a good job. There are some people who really put a lot of effort in it to get a good pacer, and that is possible because you can edit your recorded laps until the milliseconds. I know a few people who stick with the C7042 and RCS for the recorded pace car options, who can even make a pitstop.

Reactions: 2

Felix1024

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 13, 2022

Thanks, I didn't know about that one, I will certainly take a look at it.

Reactions: 1

Ade

· #10 · Apr 14, 2022

If you are doing a project (sounds interesting), you might like some more detail as follows.

The Scorpius Lane Brain, car decoder and Race Management System work as a team to execute all the possibilities.
The Lane Brain function:
Has LEDs in one or both lanes each with option of anti collision LEDs. So between 1-4 LEDs will be utilised depending on whether it’s a single or double changer. And whether or not anti collision is required. Each LED transmit a code defining the following:
A.Sector
B.Lane
C.Lane change or anti collision status.
The Lane Brain also powers 1-4 solenoids (1-4 flippers) depending again on what the requirements are. There are a few ways it can be configured.
It also processes and executes the Anti Collision function.
And it livens dead flippers (up to 4) so cars can not be stranded on lane changers.

Car Decoder: Apart from the typical motor and brake controls (configurable), the car decoder continuously (even whilst at rest) transmits the following.
Car ID. Paired from controller.
Car PIN. Paired from controller.
Motor PWM (data picked from controller).
Brake PWM (data picked from controller).
Driver name ( picked up from controller).
Lane change yes/no (picked up from controller).
Sector (data collected at each lane changer).
Lane number (data collected at each lane changer).

Each car sends 100 updates per second to the PC via dongle, whilst receiving 100 drive commands per second from controller or PC program.

Scorpius Race Management System:
Has many functions but in relation to ghost or Smart cars gains all its information from cars only. For the Smart Car function laps are recorded and stored in the RMS. Motor drive, brake drive and lane change preferences are replayed . The car is calibrated at each lane changer not just the finish line for better results. The software analyses the traffic and decides when to navigate around slower cars.
Hope that helps. Just call out if you need more information.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

Felix1024

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 20, 2022

Ade said:
If you are doing a project (sounds interesting), you might like some more detail as follows.

The Scorpius Lane Brain, car decoder and Race Management System work as a team to execute all the possibilities.
The Lane Brain function:
Has LEDs in one or both lanes each with option of anti collision LEDs. So between 1-4 LEDs will be utilised depending on whether it’s a single or double changer. And whether or not anti collision is required. Each LED transmit a code defining the following:
A.Sector
B.Lane
C.Lane change or anti collision status.
The Lane Brain also powers 1-4 solenoids (1-4 flippers) depending again on what the requirements are. There are a few ways it can be configured.
It also processes and executes the Anti Collision function.
And it livens dead flippers (up to 4) so cars can not be stranded on lane changers.

Car Decoder: Apart from ...

Scorpius Race Management System:
Has many functions but in relation to ghost or Smart cars gains all its information from cars only. For the Smart Car function laps are recorded and stored in the RMS. Motor drive, brake drive and lane change preferences are replayed . The car is calibrated at each lane changer not just the finish line for better results. The software analyses the traffic and decides when to navigate around slower cars.
Hope that helps. Just call out if you need more information.

That's great info and fills in a few blanks I had and will no doubt help others that were wondering.

Does anybody think that racers would want to race against another race across the internet?

Minardi

· #12 · Apr 20, 2022

That has already been done, and will certainly be back in a future release of RCS;
ISC64 - SSD International Slotcar Championship

Felix1024

Discussion Starter · #13 · Apr 20, 2022

Well done guys setting that up!

It must have been a fun event. I got a lot of good ideas from the technical challenges you solved there and other thoughts that you had after the event about tweaks needed especially calibration. Some of the things I had also considered..

Reactions: 1

300SLR

· #14 · Apr 20, 2022

Felix1024 said:
Does anybody think that racers would want to race against another race across the internet?

Scalex produced a system to do just that a few years back. I know a couple of the guys who did some of the early testing.
It sounded like a good idea at the time, but didn't seem to catch on.
Some claimed it had potential but needed more development
For whatever reason it seems to have disappeared without trace.... does anybody know more?

MrFlippant

· #15 · Apr 20, 2022

A bit more than a "few" years back. I believe you're thinking of the Scalextric analog system that came just before digital, but it used the digital controllers and the power base connected to the computer. I've forgotten the name of it, but I keep wanting to say AutoWorld or something like that. That system came and went in the early naughts, well over 15 years ago now.

Minardi

· #16 · Apr 20, 2022

Sport world

Reactions: 1

300SLR

· #17 · Apr 20, 2022

Thanks for the reminder Greg and Minardi - yes Sport World. - a quick google reveals it was released around 2005

Reactions: 1

Felix1024

Discussion Starter · #18 · Apr 20, 2022

300SLR said:
Scalex ...

For whatever reason it seems to have disappeared without trace.... does anybody know more?

Things being produced and then vanishing seem to be a common occurrence for Scalextric.

MrFlippant

· #19 · Apr 20, 2022

I think Sport World also had some kind of autonomous feature. I think one of the main features was that people in different parts of the world could make the same track and connect over the internet, and it would actually drive a car on the other person's track from your controller, or something like that? I never had one, but I remember people speaking fondly of some of the things it could do. I'd bet it was nixed because the requirements for proper functionality (good computer, good internet, etc) were so rare that it sold terribly and had poor customer satisfaction overall.

What else was produced by Scalextric that vanished without being replaced by a better product?

Felix1024

Discussion Starter · #20 · Apr 20, 2022

MrFlippant said:
...

What else was produced by Scalextric that vanished without being replaced by a better product?

Pacer and Challenger?? Or where they immediately replaced with another system?

Reactions: 1

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