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OK, now I have a true conundrum to resolve. While I am all clear on the early 1/24 scale Strombecker racing sets (H1, H2, H3), the early 1/32 scale sets are still offering me a challenge: I am not satisfied with the idea, advanced by Jose Rodriguez Jr. as well as our own Jose in this forum, that the first 1/32 scale chassis was the "white" one. Indeed, close observation of the various models in my hands suggest otherwise. While it SEEMS like Jose's listing follows a logical order, it also presents me with a problem, that of mold marks on the white chassis, as well as the evidence that there were two different motors available at the same time.

At hand, I have one each of the basic chassis evolutions as suggested by Jose Rodriguez:

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Motor vehicle Font


At left is the "first" chassis with the Mabuchi 15R "short" motor. Next is the gray chassis with the KMK "KaKo" motor, the same as used in the 1/24 scale Strombecker slot cars offered in the H2 and H3 sets. next is the chassis for the "long" Mabuchi with long shaft, finally the one for the "long" Mabuchi with short shaft.
Here is the problem: on this "white" chassis, there are molding marks that correspond to the openings made in the gray chassis to clear the magnets of the KMK "KaKo" motor. So now I am REALLY confused. How could this be???

Below is a picture showing the "white" chassis fitted with the "short" Mabuchi, and it shows the open pockets! ???

Wheel Motor vehicle Font Automotive design Auto part


This is on the back of this card:

Font Gas Machine Auto part Liquid


Here is a picture of the two motors, the one used in the 1/24 scale motorized kits AND slot cars, the other fitted in what I still believe is the first, and not the second, Strombecker chassis.

Tire Wheel Product Automotive tire Motor vehicle


So what is first, what is second? The molding marks on the white chassis (I tried to take pictures but they are too faint to show) mean that the pockets WERE present at one time and were filled. The "short" Mabuchi motor makes no sense in the order, since the KaKo motor was already on line, and the picture shown above proves that at one time, BOTH motors were available.

Can someone resolve this conundrum?
 

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Hi

Well now, this is very interesting. Philippe .. do we have any idea as to the time line for the production of the sets and kits in 1/32. In other words, were the kits available before the sets or only after the production of the sets. I received the early set with the Kako motor, two D-Jags, etc. Supposedly it was "just out" in time for Christmas. My understanding is that the white chassis came in the kits and not in the sets, or at least not in the first set. ???

all my very best,

Charles
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Charles,
All the documentation I have contradicts the conventional thinking that the "white" chassis was first. But it is very confusing...
We have several complete RTR white Jaguars with gray chassis and KaKo motors, new in small white boxes marked Strombeck-Becker, we have blue and red Jaguar and red Maserati kits with gray (but not white) chassis also labeled Strombeck-Becker, but no RTR or kit with the white chassis, just a few loose ones and one with the red motor.
And those white chassis have the side pockets MARKS on their molding, meaning that at one time the mold had these, meaning that the white chassis COULD be second, and not first in line.
Hence my utter confusion, and none of the catalogs, pictures etc. tells me which is what other than the first 1/32 scale sets were advertized in the 1960 Auto World catalog as "New", and are set #312 with two Jaguars (figure 8) and set # H31, an oval with an "F4" Jaguar and an "F2" Maserati. This later set with the "long" handles with push buttons, while the # 312 has simple and later push buttons with no handles. The H31 set is advertized with "Nylon" chassis and "heavy duty" motor, so it could well be the set with the red motors. The other "H" stock numbers by the way are for parts. So the H1, H2 and H3 numbers are sets, but H4 through at least H19 are parts, like track elements, power pack, fence, even lubricant. Hence H31 is not the continuation of 30 previous sets!


I need to sort this out before I get nasty fan mail once the book is out!
 

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My first Strombecker set was purchased in 1962 and had the DJag and Testa Rossa. They both had the "grey" chassis you feature on the extreme right. In fact, that was the only chassis I'd ever seen on a Strombecker car until they started including the Pittman-style open motors in the "black" chassis. This is no help to you, I'm sure, but it's my experience. All I ever saw until much later was the "grey" chassis.
 

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hi,i think 1st you had the 1/24th sets made in 1959,then for 1/32 scale they released the maserati with the 15 r motor because the kako motor wouldnt fit in the narrow maserati body.then they produced the 1/32 jag d set with the kako motors because the bodies were wide enough to hold the kako motor & the motor was cheaper than the 15 r motor.or cheaper because they had a surplus of kako motors already..after this they produced the long shaft motor on ferrari.i dont think they would have made the white chassis after the kako grey chassis.
it sort of makes sense this way but i could be wrong.
the white chassis & 15 r motor are the rarest so this would make sense.the long shaft motors may not have been available to strombecker & they had the maserati 1st.i will look through my papers & see what i can find out.i hope this doesnt delay your book phillipe.
thanks,bernard
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Bernard,
The 1/24 scale sets obviously did not have a chassis because they were a unitary body and all fitted with the KaKo motor. My records show that the Jaguar D-type was the first of the 1/32 scale cars issued, not the second. I think that I have enough evidence to prove this now.
What is possible is that the set # H31 which I believe to be the first 1/32 scale set issued MAY have had the red motor and the white Nylon chassis, but was the only set issued this way. But this is still speculation from me without solid evidence...
 

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Hi

So ... is the question as to which set was first .. the 312 or the H31?? If H31 was first ... then were both of these chassis produced at the same time (relatively speaking)?? But if the D-Jags were the first 1/32 cars issued, would it not make some sense that set 312 was also first?

I do find all of this fascinating, I must say!!

all my very best,

Charles
 

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I have a feeling the Kako motor was first used in a grey chassis, which used those grey 2 piece wire wheels. Then they may have switched to nylon(white) for more durability and stopped the 2 piece wire wheels. I have only seen the grey 2 piece wire wheels in my neck of the woods. Not really any evidence but maybe a good guess, using the wheels as sign.
 

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Very good observation Philippe,

You're right, is an enigma that 6 volts motor red Mabuchi 15 ( not 15r ! ) is in first 1:32 slot car and however 1º white chassis but body Jaguar D type 1 are also prepared for an motor that was used later : kako 3,5V.

However, this puzzle has trap: kako motor was really used before, not in the Strombecker 1:32 since 1960, but in the Strombecker 1:24 since 1959.

The first 1:32 Strombecker were originally prepared to Kako, but not mounted by factory ! ( body Jaguar D type 1 but impossible to body Maserati ) , because if it took the case ... common replacement of 1:24 using the engine kako 3.5 V.

My explanation is that an engineer was responsible for the chassis and another engineer was in charge of the bodies ... and between them there was not good communication


Little later, in October 1960 Jaguar D type 2 took motor 3,5V Kako, these Jaguar D type come of economic circuitos 312 and 313 ( not first track circuits Strombecker 1:32 ) .

The intention of wanting to use common parts and moreover the fact that some parts are obsolete, causing in some cases the obligation to rectify the molds have to update a common mechanics used and sometimes lead to situations really curious, for example the case Kako-Ferrari TR : the Ferrari Testa Rossa, whose body was ready to mount the engine kako, but never did the factory.

Strombecker is funny
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Gar,
Unfortunately it would not be of any help as the 2-piece wheels were indeed on the first cars but lasted well into the early to mid 1960's before being replaced by several other designs, all in one piece.

QUOTE So ... is the question as to which set was first .. the 312 or the H31?? If H31 was first ... then were both of these chassis produced at the same time (relatively speaking)?? But if the D-Jags were the first 1/32 cars issued, would it not make some sense that set 312 was also first?
I would think that the H31 set came JUST before the # 312.

So far I have found the following (and I have never researched this too deeply until now since I really did not care that much!
)

H1, H2. H3 are variations of the same 1/24 scale racing set depending on its content.
H4 is the early (3-volt?) transformer.
H5 are the control buttons with the long handle.
H6 is the wiring to connect to the track
H7 is ???
H8 is the piece of straight track (brass rails).
H9 is the curved track (brass rails).
H10 is the fence
H11. 12. 13 ???
H14 is the 1/24 scale pick-up conversion kit for the motorised kits.
H15 ???
H16 is a bottle of lube.
H17, 18 ???
H19 is the 12-volt transformer for the Mabuchi R15 motor, that makes me think that the Mabuchi came AFTER the KaKo and not before as I suspect but cannot prove yet, that would be contradicting the Jose Rodriguez analysis.
H20 to H29, ???
H30 is H31 without the power pack.
H31 is what I believe is the first 1/32 scale set with the Maserati and the Jaguar D-Type, and again this COULD be the set with the "white" chassis and the red R15 motors, but I need more evidence of this.
Then it goes to "312", a set with the two Jaguar D-Type cars.

I also checked the first 1/32 scale car KITS, but all the ones we have (still marked "Strombeck-Becker" and made in Moline, not at Dowst in Chicago), have the gray chassis and already the long-shaft Mabuchi "gray" 15R motor. Hence the only cars we have with the KaKo are boxed RTR Jaguars.

Help!
 

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charles,
you have here the list of all the Strombeck-Becker sets :

1959
Strombecker 1:24 of Strombeck-Becker in Moline.
set H1 circuit no cars, no transfo. 14.95$.
set H2 with Mercedes F.1 + Jaguar D no transfo. 24.95$.
set H3 with Mercedes F.1 + Jaguar D with transfo H4 35.95$.
cars with Kako motors

1960
Strombecker 1:32 of Strombeck-Beker in Moline
set H30 with red Maserati 250F type 1 + white Jaguar D type 1 no transfo. 29.95$
set H31 with red Maserati 250F type 1 + white Jaguar D type 1 with transfo H19. 39.95$
cars with red Mabuchi 15 motors

October 1960
Strombecker 1:32 of Strombeck-Becker in Moline
set 312 white Jaguar D type 2 + red Jaguar D type 2 with another transfo.29.95$
kako motors

early 1961
( set 313 ) not official, it is probably a balance circuit.
as 312 but with 2 extra body Jaguar D type2. Liquidation.
kako motors
 

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and now the common chasis :

1º white chasis-Mabuchi 15 to Maserati type 1 and Jaguar D type 1 since 1960. Motorkits and sets H30, H31.

2º grey chasis-Kako ( too Mabuchi 15 but not mounted by factory ) to Jaguar D type 2 since Octuber 1960. Sets 312, 313.

3º grey chasis-Mabuchi 15r long shaft to Maserati type 1 and Jaguar D type 3 and Jaguar D type 4 and Ferrari TR type 1 since spring 1961.RTR, bodykits, motorkits, circuits 5040, 5050.

4º grey chasis-Mabuchi 15r short shaft to Maserati type 2, Jaguar D type 4, Ferrari TR type 3, Chevy, Ford Galaxy, Pontiac, Ferrari Berlinetta type 1, Jaguar E type 1. RTR, customkits, circuits.

Cooper, Indy, Hot Rod have not common chassis.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Jose, thanks but I need PROOF of this:

QUOTE Strombecker 1:32 of Strombeck-Beker in Moline
set H30 with red Maserati 250F type 1 + white Jaguar D type 1 no transfo. 29.95$
set H31 with red Maserati 250F type 1 + white Jaguar D type 1 with transfo H19. 39.95$
cars with red Mabuchi 15 motors

Do you have PROOF that these sets had the red motor in the white chassis?

So far, I can only speculate as I did:

QUOTE H31 is what I believe is the first 1/32 scale set with the Maserati and the Jaguar D-Type, and again this COULD be the set with the "white" chassis and the red R15 motors, but I need more evidence of this.

But the molding marks on the white chassis where the magnet pockets were tell me that it was not the first, but the second molding, UNLESS both were made at the same time, and the mold had a provision for blocking the pockets depending if molding one chassis in gray plastic or one chassis in white Nylon.
This is the most plausible explanation can come up with, but I need PROOF!!!
 

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Philippe,
I have no definitive evidence, this would have the H30 or H31 circuit without unsealing, plus I do not even I have such circuits, mainly because I do not collect circuits, but only cars, but secondly such circuits have an enormous difficulty of be found ... I bring over 10 years studying, collecting information and collecting slot cars official bibliography of Strombecker and I can say that at this time I have only come to see these sets of circuit 2 times! .

I have no conclusive evidence, but I see very clearly the first 1:32 of Strombecker circuits H30 and H31 were by a multitude of reasons ...

*'s Own references "H" which of course I will list below, all have a chronological order.

* The content contained within the circuit sets, according to the catalogs is before the circuit material 312. Anyone with such catalogs can see (also on the cover of the circuit) that cars including a Jaguar D are (actually type 1) and a Maserati 250F (actually type 1), the second of which due to space never could keep Kako, so ... the only engine that could lead to the beginning was the Mabuchi network 15. You can see further, as according to the catalog, both the transformer and the controls are followed.

* In advertising for the circuit 312 of October 1960, detailing define such a circuit inside ... its controls are classified as novelty and its transformer also (and their cars are Jaguar D type 2 motor Kako). Details of hard wheels have soft wheels front and back is something that took all of Strombeck-Becker Strombecker from the beginning, this is a detail that if coldly reasoning is very surprising.

I should mention something very important concerning the history ... Strombeck-Becker got the idea from the start to be sold to Tootsie Toys Dowst and it made a superhuman effort to develop a toy dubbed Strombecker, as a decoy to be purchased, which won the March 18, 1960.

With great effort, soon developed a toy and diaper clumsy to something that really worked and that was attractive to the largest American toy (and also be copied in Mexico). Production in the beginning was scarce and lack of anarchic impulses, to get to be the star product sales ... it was not the first and certainly expensive motorkits, but the cheap circuit 312 that included the most economical versions with a minimum of reliability, they were manufactured in great mass, if we compare it with the ability he had Moline factory Strombeck-Becker, who was not even a tenth of the capacity of the future Dowst factory in Chicago.

H30 and H31 were the yet before the 312, but were made very few, I venture to say that would not be very reliable as well as you can see out to the public at a high price.
 

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Now I'm going to talk about small white pieces:

before you use the gray to inject, the primitive units of the additional cars 1.32 Strombecker were injected into white: steering common drivers, 1 chassis type, 1 type of wheels, 1 type of crown, 1 type guide and 2 nd type of guidance.

Please note, I'm not saying that a white piece = primitive units.

These primitives only white pieces came to be included in the first units sold, that is ... motorkit primitive units, bodykit H30 and H31 and sets 250F Maserati and Jaguar Type 1 Type 1 ... indeed I have not even arrived yet clear whether these kits then carry the Jaguar type2

At no time, the common wheel drivers and 1 type of wheels were injected into gray. Find blank is extremely difficult.

In October 1960 ushered in the first evolution of common technology, the economic circuits used in 312. It evolved chassis and leads to a second type, as well as the crown had to adapt to the new engine, being injected into the 3 parts white, but soon after the 2 ° guide was injected into gray.

If this knowledge is known to handle well, can be dated back many primitive units, as well as the scientific dating of organic compounds by carbon-14 method: they measure the carbon 12 and carbon 14 and depends on its value can date an item.
 

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Regarding the Strombeck-Becker references ...

in the late 50's there are " the D references " [ Dxx] , it is dynamic cars 1:24 but not slot cars cars.

The first slot cars is referenced by Strombeck-Becker as " the H references " [ Hxx] and following the list of items that I know :

H1 set circuits without cars and witthout transfo
H2 set circuits with Mercedes GP 1:24 and Jaguar D 1:24 but no transfo
H3 set circuits with Mercedes GP 1:24 and Jaguar D 1:24 and transfo
H4 LO-12V transfo for 3,5V Kako motors ( yes, we know that´s not correct ! )
H5 control buttons with the long handle.
H6 connect to track
H7 -------------------------------------------------------------
H8 straight track
H9 curved track
H10 fence
H11 kako 3,5V
H12 motor brushes
H13 2 tires 1:24
H14 1/24 scale pick-up conversion kit for the motorised kits.
H15 pick up & brushes
H16 lubricant
H17 battery case & swith
H18 gear assortment
H19 2Amp -6V transformer for the Mabuchi 15 motor.
H20 ----------------------------------------------------------
H21 ----------------------------------------------------------
H22 ----------------------------------------------------------
H23 4 tires 1:32
H24 ----------------------------------------------------------
H25 8 " pick up wire ( all scales )
H26 ----------------------------------------------------------
H27 -----------------------------------------------------------
H28 Front end assembly ( not for all 1:24 cars )
H29 ----------------------------------------------------------
H30 set circuit 1:32 with red Maserati 250F type1 and white Jaguar D type1, but no transfo
H31 set circuit 1:32 with red Maserati 250F type1 and white Jaguar D type1, with transfo
H32 ----------------------------------------------------------
H33-----------------------------------------------------------
H34-----------------------------------------------------------
H35-----------------------------------------------------------
H36-----------------------------------------------------------
H37 twin Power pack 1,25Amps 6V for 312 set circuit.
H38 thruttle control ( " OVNI controls " for 312 set circuit )
H39 tracks lugs ( all scales )
H40 ---------------------------------------------------------
H41 pick up brushes 1:32
H42 --------------------------------------------------------
H43 --------------------------------------------------------
H44 --------------------------------------------------------
H45 rear axel with gear and front axel 1:32
H46 --------------------------------------------------------
H47 3,5V motor & gear 1:24
H48 obstacule strip
H49 4-lane track converter

So far I know H references. Keep in mind that sometimes is classified as a domestic but ultimately an article hits the market as a spare so I have to say that the rest or do not know either or never were announced as replacements.

Of course grateful if someone could complete this list.

Strombeck-Becker differentiate the RTR and motorkits with references E, H, and economic sets 312 and 313 ... very neat in theory but in reality utter chaos that will end soon, as from March 18, 1960 the toy is purchased by Strombecker of Dowst who introduces the clasics 4-digit references [ xxxx ] in turn inherited the French units (but then used later 6 digits [xxx-xxx] ) and Spanish references.
 

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I bring more information:
in the same cover of H30 and H31 circuit reads:

- 1 / 32 scale racing cars
- X600 powerful electric motor
- Individual controls hands
- 2 lane slotted track system

also in the lithograph of the cover features a 250F Maserati and Jaguar D.

the X600 is the red electric motor Mabuchi 15, same engine seen in That It Can motokits individual panflets.I think the hands are still the hands controls of H2 and H3 September circuits.

-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------

The information of the circuits 312, we can derive that: from the cover reads:

- 2 cars ready to race (in cover 2 Jaguar D)
- Figure 8 track with overpass
- Individual power pack with hand controls (H38)
- A complete racing set.

ads also from October 1960, we conclude that:

- Pick up new positive contact (the 2 ° guide! Primitive white, later gray)
- Latest design Jaguar cars (not Jaguar D type 1, type 2 But!)
- New curb type curve track
- New positive control buttons (H38)

Everything is even more detailed instruction sheet from the circuit 312, with some drawings even and I have no doubt also connect your transformer as the H39.
 

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And now I summarize:

Philippe need definitive evidence that H30 and H31 circuits have cars which carry network red Mabuchi 15 of 6V. In my opinion we may be waiting a lifetime to find H30 and H31 circuit without unsealing and possibly can not ever find, so I bring the following inconclusive tests each, but in my opinion I have no doubt :

1. a chronology based logic H references ( slot Strombeck-Becker references H took a logical sequence of numbers, not 4 digits references used by Dowst). It shows how components of circuit 312 are post-H30 and H31 references/circuits.

2. the fact that on the cover of the H30 and H31 same circuits that use motor is said X-600, which is the same engine that carry motorkits Maserati 250F and Jaguar D type1 type1. If you consult the respective instructions leaflets of motorkits, the engines are cited as X-600 and are drawn ... are drawings but those are Mabuchi 15. I have personally no doubt.

There are other little details that fit ... Cover lithographs, prices and comparison circuits catalogs ... and more.

The early Strombecker years are largely unknown, specifically to be published before his first official magazine Table Top Topics, since there were not many magazines publications or magazines about it. Nevertheless, this is not the unknown stage of all ...
 

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I'm sure I've solved many questions and created new ones.


To accompany all this information I can openly present to you in this forum photos or catalogs that are in my collection.
But other photos or catalogs are not in my collection, in this case as you will understand this second type of information you can provide by way of private (e-mail).

For example I can not hang in public photos H30 circuit ... appointment not a catalog that H30 and H31 circuit ... Nor Maserati and Jaguar motorkits citing X-600 engine ... but I do that I can pass you by private road ...

If original one that I have so much information, but is such that it is better than pregunteis something specific, like any magazine or catalog item this time or instruction leaflets circuit 312 or the Maserati motorkit of type 1 ... also a picture of what I have in collections ... and this type of information if I can hang it right here ...
 
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