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I have only just thought to post this here, just to hear your views etc.

What do you guys think on one of the goverments plans (that probbly will never happen) to ban four by four vehicles in inner city areas?

Also what do you think about 4X4s needing health warnings like packets of cigerettes?!


Doug
 

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so if this ruling was passed these are just a few of the cars that would be banned:
all subarus (apart from the 360)
many modern sport type cars (skylines, lancers,etc)
some supercars, murchalargo etc
does this also mean people from outside of the city would not be able to drive into the city?
stupidity of the highest order
 

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QUOTE (minimental @ 13 Dec 2004, 17:46)so if this ruling was passed these are just a few of the cars that would be banned:
all subarus (apart from the 360)
many modern sport type cars (skylines, lancers,etc)
some supercars, murchalargo etc
does this also mean people from outside of the city would not be able to drive into the city?
stupidity of the highest order
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its more offroaders rather then AWD cars iirc..
 

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Gary Skipp
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It'd be easier to ban non comercial/service vehicles over say, 3 tonnes (thats just a guess, no idea what jeeps/cars weigh). Of course if cras and chelsey tractors are about the same wieght then that wouldn't work.

Still not necessary IMO, but far more practical.
 

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Brian Ferguson
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QUOTE but how do you define an offroader?

Around here.... all SUVs, because in winter, they all end up off road and in the ditch.


Sorry.... personal rant, aimed at the majority of SUV owners here who have no natural driving talent but think their SUV makes them a driving superstar.
 

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the farthest off road most off roaders go is up the drive. the government come up with these amazin ideas, but then they realise they wont work (millenium dome, london congestion charges, and now this). so what about people who work in inner city areas who have 4x4's? are the governemnt goin to pay for new cars:

banning 4WD means that small cars would still be banned, yet larger 2wd's wud be allowed in.

banning by weight would mean delivery vehicles, removal vehicles, and such wpuld be banned

banning by size, same problem

baning by engin size..... small high power cars banned, but bigger slower cars ok?!?!

it just wont work, they canrt ban 4WD vehicles from city centres, as they are just cars. living in the center of plymouth ive noticed the most common vehicle is the bus, and theres HUNDREDS of them. if they ban 4WD, and put congestion charges in, then they will ahve to increase the busses, and that would be hell, they take up so much room, casue road rage, and are never more than 1/4 full.

i recon the government should stop trying to dumb down the coutry, and allow people to ahve more free will

[/rant]
 

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Gary Skipp
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QUOTE (Skeeter @ 13 Dec 2004, 18:40)banning by weight would mean delivery vehicles, removal vehicles, and such wpuld be banned

banning by size, same problem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My suggestion covers this. Exempt would be comercial (ie on business; removal vans, delivery lorries) and service (ambulances, busses etc).
 

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Scott Brownlee
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Interesting topic - and one which I'm professionally involved with. As has already been pointed out, what do they mean by 4x4?

Truth is, they don't know what they mean and they don't care either. This is being pushed by various people - MPs seeking profile, safety pressure groups desperate to be seen to be doing something to justify funding, left-wing so-called think tanks - who each have their own agenda.

Sadly, the sound-bite friendly "all 4x4s are bad" statement doesn't demand too much explanation from most who hear it.

Fact is, buses pollute more than any other vehicle and cows are even worse than them. Being hit by a 2.5 ton vehicle hurts little less than being hit by a 1 ton vehicle (in fact, some research suggests pedestrians are better off being hit by a flat fronted SUV as the force is more evenly distributed along the torso and not just the legs, then head hitting the bonnet.)

Of course, best answer is to train people - pedestrians mostly - not to walk out in front of cars of any size or shape, but we live a nanny state where it must be someone else's' fault. And it's is cheaper to blame the cars and have the buyer pay for massive engineering changes instead of some kerb side fences or training for pedestrians.

Definitions by weight, size, length, drive-train are all flawed, but it matters not for what is really at the root of this is good old fashioned British class envy.

When Ken Livingstone said "anyone driving a 4X4 in London is an idiot" in the run up to the manorial election he was appealing to the economically challenged majority who do not own a car and could never afford a SUV. All he risked was alienating about 10% of the voters who, because they have chosen to spend their hard earned money on a vehicle of their choice, would not vote for him anyway. I just wonder if next time he'll say people shouldn't have big houses - it's the same logic.

He is not alone. Here's an transcript of the interview on the BBC Radio 4 "Today" programme with the spokesperson for the think tank who suggested the tobacco -style heath warnings;

QUOTE JAMES NAUGHTIE:
Well surely the central point then, Andrew Simms, is this - if you're going to put a health warning on a 4 X 4 on environmental grounds shouldn't you have it on every black taxi in London as well?

ANDREW SIMMS:
Well I think the reason is I mean, you know, there's a reason that we have buses and they're not frivolous examples of conspicuous consumption in the way that 4 X 4s are so there is a difference there.

You see. They think just because it is - in their minds - an unnecessary luxury it should be banned. Do you see - they are telling us what to spend our (heavily taxed) income on. Some might argue that the true, tax subsidised cost of a bus makes it an even bigger luxury&#8230;

There's more. In the midst of a barely understandable babble about 4x4 advertising he came out with this;

QUOTE ANDREW SIMMS:

&#8230;in fact they rarely do leave the close confines of taking little Tamsin and Griselda to St Uptight's prep-school

So not only are we to be judged by what car we spend our money on, but what we call our children and where we send them to school. And no, you haven't been asleep while the government made all these free choices illegal - but it's close.

The danger here is not from 4x4s crashing into us and causing pollution (manly because they don't any more than any other type of vehicle) but from the stealthy erosion of our freedoms. It might seem laughable and nothing to do with most of us, but believe me - this sort of guff is all too common in the Britain of today.
 

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Peter Farrell
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Going slightly off topic What Scott said about being hit by a slab fronted vehicle is to a degree less likely to cause the damage that is caused by being hit by something that is equipped with say Bull bars. trouble is most vehicles to be so equipped are dare i say it 4x4's
Alfetta
 

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Interesting article in this weekends Times driving supplement (or Telegraph - whichever one Clarkson slags off a new car every week across the centre spread - you know the one I mean. I'm not sure which it was as I just read it at my Dads while waiting for Arsenal/Chelsea on TV) which pointed out that

A - Carbon emissions from a diesel Bimmer X5 are less than a petrol Bimmer Mini Cooper S and

B - The footprint of many of the so-called 'offroads' is actually less than that of many modern saloons.

It didn't point out my favourite bit of trivia about SUVs which is that the Landrover Freelander has exactly the same wheelbase as the Bimmer Mini...

It's a crazy suggestion anyway because it just appeals to the vindictive streak in people. Now I hate SUVs as much as the next man, mainly because they hold me up around country lanes, dangerously obscuring the view, their headlamps are always dazzling due to their height, muggins here is always the one who has to put his low-slung car up the verge to let the t****s past at a narrow bit and the general poor driving displayed by them (real Landrovers expected here!). For example I routinely get stuck in a morning commute behind a woman doing a school run in a Merc SUV who clearly has to fold her mirrors in to park in a car port - I know this because she never, ever, ever bothers to fold them back into situ. But at least she won't be hurt when she piles into the school bus.

So of course we are all sniggering at the suggestion and saying "good one Ken" but it would be a par with making legislation that ruled that public hanging was the only answer to people who don't indicate when turning left at busy junctions, people get in the righthand lane at traffic lights then creep away incredibly slowly, people who dislike football and then sneer at me in a superior fashion because I am clearly an inferior being because I do, people who have a full trolley at Safeways and don't offer to let me go first when I only have a pint of milk, old age pensioners who aren't aware that shops offer change and try and pay for everything in the exact cash from about four or five purses (usually at lunchtime), undergraduates who can't hold their beer causing them to hold all their pub conversations at 120db and particularly smug vegetarians. All of which get on my wick and they all deserve a smacking of some kind but to put this sort of nonsense on the statue books..... get real.


And you all know the way it works - SUVs today, sports cars tomorrow, people with more than one car the day after...

Coop
 

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Scott Brownlee
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Alfetta,

Bull bars are (voluntarily) banned on production cars and only fitted - if at all - by owners after the car has been sold. But you are right, they serve no purpose on a car anywhere but the bush or the outback.
 

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QUOTE people who don't indicate when turning left at busy junctions, people get in the righthand lane at traffic lights then creep away incredibly slowly, people who dislike football and then sneer at me in a superior fashion because I am clearly an inferior being because I do, people who have a full trolley at Safeways and don't offer to let me go first when I only have a pint of milk, old age pensioners who aren't aware that shops offer change and try and pay for everything in the exact cash from about four or five purses (usually at lunchtime), undergraduates who can't hold their beer causing them to hold all their pub conversations at 120db and particularly smug vegetarians.

...old people, young people, 29mph drivers, 290mph drivers, people who hog the middle lane, people who hog the outside lane, people wait for a gap the size of a blue whale before they pull out, people who get in the wrong lane and then sit there with their indicator trying to pull into the right lane, the police, people who drive on the phone, drunk drivers, Porsche/BMW/Mercedes/Volvo drivers, white van men, buses, dappy drivers, overconfident drivers, people who use the hard shoulder in a traffic jam, attractive female drivers (distracting), people who have music loud in traffic jams so everyone has to listen to it, wanabe pimps, ricers, tailgaters, people who forget to turn off their full beams, careless drivers, boy racers, girl racers, artics, motorbikes, MOPEDS, kids on gopeds, cyclists, minis, new minis, MX5s, speed limits, speed cameras...... and most of all, people who drive like me.

God, and that's only stuff on the road... don't get me started on everything else that pisses me off...

What WAS this thread about anyway?

Andy
 

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I don't have a problem with 4x4's...I do have a problem with SUV's that have bumpers that don't match up to cars. Now THAT would be a simple piece of legislation which would make us all safer. I don't even care if offroaders match up, but the vast number of small, large and midsize SUV's (which outnumber cars in the US at this point)...they ought to get with the program.

You ask why I care? Some doofus totalled my Miata while sitting stopped at a traffic light the other day. He was accelerating while reaching for something on the floor (not even looking). His bumper sheared right through my entire rear half...never even touched my bumper(!)

But personally....I say leave the true 4x4's alone. They're too much fun!


my opinion,
John

PS most bull bars are show only...not frame mounted. They just twist the bumper on impact
 
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