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Is there a thread on beacon placement? I found this in the old lane brain thread but didn't want to cause confusion by bringing it back to top so starting a new one...

Is the below correct? and are the red dots lane change and green anti collision?

QUOTE (minus @ 3 Nov 2010, 14:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Rick

Can you please verify these measurements for positioning the sensor bars: 100mm from flipper tip, and 360 mm from sensor tip.
I am putting grooves in the 3d model for them now.....



Thx

minus

Is the below beacon still best choice?

The 'beacons' in the track are LED Part number 475-1365-ND from Digikey or Mouser. Description: Emitter IR880NM Clr sidelooker. Manufacturer: Osram
For timber use the 3mm bulb type in IR.
The LEDs and phototransistors (for the car) will be available through the webshop.
 

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Hi Lawracing,
The distances are still relative, but since then I decide to offset the phototransistor and LED in track 12mm (1/2") offset to the left looking from above and looking in a forward direction. Here Ill need to draw a new diagram.

LED info is still relevant.
Part number for the 3mm bulb type IR LED is 754-1241-ND from Digikey or similar suppliers.

Red is LC and green is AC.
Recommend you leave the AC ones out until you get it running propoerly, then add these in once your LC beacons are proved to be the correct spacing:)

Rick
 

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Ok Guys,
Disregard the pic in post #1, its from 2009!!!

Heres the latest "standard" fopr Scorpius users.





Rick
 

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Hi Rick,

Is this 12mm offset mandatory ?
Is it just a plastic track stuff ?

I have already holes drilled in the middle of my timber track (from beta releases) and in the middle of some cars. Should I give it a try first ?

Could you detail the problem you are trying to solve by setting this offset ?

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Didier
 

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12mm offset will be the world standard for Scorpius and has been that way for about 2 years. As Im going to rock up to your track unexpectantly one day with a case full of chipped NSRs you better be ready:)

Please discard old images showing the LED in the centre of the rails.
Having the LED so far down under the rails doesnt give the best result so its important to get uo closer to the track surface, only having at the side of the rails can this be achieved.

On a plastic Ninco track 10mm just isnt quite enough for the LED hole to clear the rails.

Turns out to be a good decision, all the new NSRs with drop down guide arms need 12mm, no less or more to clear the arm.

Rick
 

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Hi Rick, I'm thinking that for any reason (car types, track requirments, etc.), we could need more or less than 12mm, could we use parallel leds on the track?
 

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Hi Dani,
In the Installation Manual Vers. 1.3 is a mention. Yes the additional LEds must be wired in series.
12mm is designed for Ninco tracks so the LED clears the rails.
The Lane Brain snap off LED holders have room for 2 more LEDs, making 3, but you could in theory add more.

Rick
 

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I wonder if we all know, why Scorpius has this unique feature of 12 mm beacon offset.

It's all about allowing maximizing drift-angle when hitting LB's and still having reliable sensor contacts.

The facts:
- The optimum - placing the led in the centre of the guide - has been rejected, (see discussion in separate thread)
- Usually, led sensors are placed in the centre of the car, behind the guide.
- With Scorpius you can put it parallel to the guide with a 12 mm offset (e.g. for slot.it cars)

To compute the deviation of the led from its "straight" position depending on the drift angle, you have to use the sine function for the centre approach and the cosine function for the offset approach of Scorpius. You may not be familiar with sine and cosine, but that does not matter, just look at that:

Let's assume, we need 12 mm offset in any case, then you get the following deviations of the car led from its "straight" position depending on the drift angle in grade:



We have a 3 mm led and a 3 mm beacon. How much overlap to we need?
Let me assume 50% (Rick, you will know better! Please correct me if necessary)

Anyhow: 50% means 1.5 mm overlap.
- Center placement approach will allow for a drift angle of about 8° (red graph)
- Scorpius approach will allow for a drift angle of about 30° (green graph for scorpius)

This is quite a difference, isn't it?

In fact, a coverage of 30° will suite all my personal requirements. No need for me, to install parallel beacons...

...have written enough, have to set up my system now, lots of components lying around and waiting for installation...

Hurray,
Diegu
 

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Hi Diegu,
Thanks for the maths. Looks like at 10 degree angle the Scorpius car has twice sas much chance to look at the LED than conventional.

Still we need more LEDs on bends for non magnet especially.

Rick
 

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...I asked in my post above, how much overlap we need between car LED and track LED, to get a reliable signal.

Did some testing today. Used a car with 9 mm offset placement instead of 12 mm.
That is NO overlap at all. On straights, this worked well on my Ninco test setup.

What do we get with this? See the diagramm in my previous post.
Having installed the car LED parallel to the guide, drift angles of more than 40° should be possible.

OK, so I installed a left-hander R2 leading into a left-hander curved XLC in my test layout. Even that XLC functioned reliably. I'm running no mags.
Tried to force the XLC NOT to work. I didn't succeed. There were only two alternatives: lane change works or car deslots.

Remarkable.

Diegu
 

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Nice test. Thanks for your efforts


Rick
 

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QUOTE (dda @ 6 Jun 2011, 14:17) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Rick,

Is this 12mm offset mandatory ?
Is it just a plastic track stuff ?

I have already holes drilled in the middle of my timber track (from beta releases) and in the middle of some cars. Should I give it a try first ?

Could you detail the problem you are trying to solve by setting this offset ?

Thanks in advance,

Regards,

Didier

Hi Didier, and everybody else.

I am going to make a prototype run of guides with a slot for the photodiode in front, possibly moulded in polyamid. If all goes well I will do a 0 series for those interrested.

This way we can keep our LED diodes in the slot

minus
 

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QUOTE (minus @ 2 Jul 2011, 13:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Didier, and everybody else.

I am going to make a prototype run of guides with a slot for the photodiode in front, possibly moulded in polyamid. If all goes well I will do a 0 series for those interrested.

This way we can keep our LED diodes in the slot

minus

Sounds interesting, let us know how it goes
 

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Hi Minus,
I dont recommend having in the centre, for a start it makes it difficult to install the LED beacons on plastic tracks.
Ive also committed to a 'standard' for Scorpius which is 12mm offset to left.
Also modifying one LC for sliding cars is easier than modifying 100 casrs etc.

Rick
 

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Hi Minus,
I dont recommend having in the centre, for a start it makes it difficult to install the LED beacons on plastic tracks.
Ive also committed to a 'standard' for Scorpius which is 12mm offset to left.
Also modifying one LC for sliding cars is easier than modifying 100 casrs etc.

Rick
 

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QUOTE (Profoxcg @ 2 Jul 2011, 14:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I wonder IF the LED on the track can be covered with a CLEAR piece of plexi.

Hi Profoxcg,
You could try rapid prototyping some out of a black tinted clear perspex. I would design so it glues in place from underneath and has an integral LED "sidelooker" holder. It just snaps into place.

Or perhaps buy some sidelooker LEDs, part number in this thread, and cast the LEDs (with say 600mm wire attached) into a black tinted clear resin which also simply glues into position. I think we covered a topic like this earlier if you could find it.

Or combine the two ideas. Cast resin and LED into rapid prototype clear shell tinted, now that would be my preference for low volumes.

Rick
 

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good ideas but some it sound a bit too complicated.

This is what I had in mind for a while:



1. MDF track surface
2. LED to installed on underside of MDF
3. Tinted "LED COVER" aprox 1/16"
4" MDF would have a lip routed to receive the LED cover similar to the braid seat.

For plastic track (ninco) the LED covers would have to installed flush with the track surface.

Help me out, what is the side looker LED you are suggesting?

This:
 

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Yes thats the 'sidelooker' type LED, good for tight spaces like plastic track systems.
Either way the lens' will have to be machined somehow so why not go all the way?

Rick
 

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Well the lens is just a flat piece. What parts need to be machined?
The track is CNC, that is not a problem, then LED cover is a plastic piece laser cut to a dia. what do you mean?
 
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