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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Im new to the forum, and am about to start building a track in my loft (when its built) - Ive also read the threads and warning about such a task, and am planning carefully.

Ok track idea - Im looking to build a track to fit in my 10 x 5 mtr loft - got to leave room for scale drag strip down 1 side (later project) - loft hatch and Water tank etc. After getting the building plans from the developer - only thing left to guess is how the builder is gonna space the trusses which may affect the final lay out.

Im working on a 2.4 x 6 mtr track - at least a 12 section straight - 1 or 2 tight hairpins - fast curves - tight sections etc..... Having slowley evolved the track from a 2 lane oval and road course to a 2 lane street cucuit with little elevation change.... Im also looking to encorporate SSD and Sport world eventually.

Ahh well - as soon as ive worked out how to post a pic -I will (Ive read the relevant thread) -- comments welcome


Cools
 

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Yo Cool,

I love your handle, very creative! The track you are describing sounds a lot like my layout, 78 feet Scaley Sport 2 lane in a 1.6 m by a little less than 4 m space.

I read through all the posts in the Track & Scenery forums here and at SCI before I started to build. I listed the best ideas that helped me most on this page along with a graphic of the track plan that shows piece numbers.

From the links on my layout's homepage you can see track and construction photos and find some other ideas that may be helpful. Just starting on scenery though I have painted my track.

Have lots of fun - and do post some pics! (I think the trick is you have to have some place on the web to post your pics to start with, then you link to the pic while you are making a post here by clicking the IMG button and entering the URL to your picture. For example, I own the domain www.citizensoldier.org. To have a picture called "lotus.jpg" show up here I would first upload the file "lotus.jpg" to the citizensoldier.org domain then enter "http://www.citizensoldier.org/lotus.jpg" in the box that comes up after you press the IMG button while typing a post here at Slot Forum)

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks Paul - for the kind words and advice.....

Intersting site you have and very informative..... Track looks quick.. with a very themed "lean" to it....

Until the actual House is built all I can do is plan.... Ive had a number of changes in layout - upto #26 in rms planner, but its getting there....

Ive been seraching the net and have all the banners etc I need for the walls I intend to line the track with. Ive already purchased the foam to put in the way of boarders.

Hope to be back on soon with a number of pics of the proposed layout....

Cheers

CoolS
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·


I said I'd be back... lol


Here is my 26th design before coming to some sort of feeling that its about what I am looking for...

1) Nice long straight
2) Varied turn radius
3) When digital arrives - various places to put LC's..
4) Adequate area for a pit lane
5) Option to add terrain - eg - elevation changes with out obsuring the view from the drivers podium.

Just not sure yet about the final hairpin before entering the start finish str8 yet....

Comments welcome....

Soon to post a pic of how well the "loft" is coming on...

C ya soon

Cools
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·


The loft is therefor a little more definate than the actual track plan.... This was the stauts of the build - last Friday - since the House to the right has a complete roof, ours is just awaiting felt and lath.

The house will have 2 lofts - 1 over the garage - which cant be seen from this angle....

The main loft - 10 meter by 5 mter - giving a usable floor space of approx 44 mtrs square....

2 months to go till we are able to move in and the arguments start...

Wife... Painting - CoolS - Floor the loft...
Wife... fitting lights. - Cools - Buy timber for track tables...
Wife... landcape the gardens.... - Cools - errr.... I think Il be in the dog house by then....

Lets see how it goes...

Cheers
CoolS
 

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Very good looking layout design, Cool. You've really put a lot of track in the space!

I think the increasing radius hairpin at the right of the long straight is a good idea. I've been surprised by how much faster my straights are if I use a few larger radius curve pieces just before and after the straight. Those 45 degree turns also add a lot of interest - a nice mix of turns.

Maybe you can speed up construction by using folding utility tables from the office supply store for the platform. That's what I did, just covered them with plywood sections pre-cut from the hardware store - easier to get pre-cut sections into a loft than whole 4x8 sheets, too. There are pictures of the tables at the link in my previous post.

Don't feel rushed. Plan to enjoy playing around with the design once you can get something set up - that's half the fun!

I'm surprised your wife does not already realize that at least getting the layout set up has to come first because it will give you an opportunity to invite the neighbors over and make new friends quickly!

Congratulations on your new home and upcoming layout. Hope all goes smoothly!

Paul
 

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Hi mate,

I'm also planning a loft track but progress is slow due to wifey demands so look out!!

One question though is with regards to insulation. Is the insulation going to be the non-fiberous type. Only ask becuase my loft has the fiberous stuff and it really gets your throat and skin. I'm having to partion off where I'm not laying floor with plaster board and hire an industrial vac to remove the particles remaining in the air.

Hopefully once sealed off from the material itself the fibres will go. Its actually really bad stuff for your health.

If you have any say see if you can have non-fibre insulation. Bit more price wise but very safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
First Paul.... I plan to build a custom table - but it will only be approximatly 2 ft high at the most..... as a base - any elvevated sections will be made then on top of the table - construction will be frame and rail - with supports "legs" every 2 to 4ft - I want to be able to climb on the table. Its gonna be relativly big, so will need to be strurdy. I like the idea of the tables - but Ive got the added complication of roof trusses - We are not able to get planning permission from the local Gov body to convert the loft yet - 2 maybe 3 years till the rest of the development is complete and we can remove the roof trusses.

My wife would like the centre peices of the track to be able to lift up - like a draw bridge... to give a central free space, when the tracks not being used. Not sure I like the idea - breaking the track every time I stop using it - could be quite tricky thing to acheive.

Im planning on buying - 8x4 ft boards of 9mm MDF - ripping them down the middle - so they go through the loft hatch as you reccommend. 6mm MDF wil form the basis of seperators between different stretchs of track - like concrete walls surronding a street course.

Scoobydriver - insulation is a tricky one.... all modern housing has to comply with new regs regarding loft insulation - the NHBC are not making it easy for us "loft dwellers" by enforcing new insulation regs - where the fiberous type insulation must run at 90 degrees to the run of the joists. I have already disscussed with the developer how to get around this. They do not recommend what Im going to do, but all Im gonna do - is turn the insulation through 90 back to the traditional way and lay it down between the joists. I then have to cap with 1"x2" timber and floor the whole loft - with 8ft x 2 ft tongue and groove chip board flooring.

Essentially the main aim is to maintain a steady temperature all year - and with no allowance for a velux for a couple of years - its gonna be quite tuff - I plan to line the roof (under side of the felt) with polystyrene bats - its light wieght and has thermal properties so will retain some heat in the winter, but will warm the place up in summer a degree. Essentially I hope to get a happy middle ground.

I shouldnt have to many issues with fibourous dust as the whole floor excpet the outer 2ft of the floor will be covered, which will be essentially unusable space anyway. With it being a brand new build - I hope the dust will be minimal anyway.

Great points guys - I think ihave the main problems covered with my plan so far - prepping the loft will be the first big hurdle - flooring and isulation - the tables the 2nd hurdle - and 3rd - will be laying down the track - getting a layout Im happy with... I have developed a few more options which I will post shortly... Lat hrudle will be scenery - which the wife has volentered her help.....

Cheers


CoolS
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
With messing around and just wndering how much track I could get in to a 6 mtr x 2.4 mtr area - I have started developing a few more options



This layout runs to a track length ot 152ft. Im not sure I lke R1 hairpin turns so the layout doesnt contain any - 2 long straights and some tight sections which consist of some R1 turns but not hairpins..

There are options to have removable portions of lay out create multiple layouts away from the main track - remove the top junction and put in 2 str8 section2 - there is an Indy type square oval.

Move the power section straight from the bottom str8 - to the inner straight and the track runs reversve direction...

At this stage I feel - its too much track - to many complications for marshalling in the centre of the track - and confusion over which direction the car would go back on - unless I provided clear arrows along the track edge as a guide.

I thought it might be interesting to share the idea.

Cheers

CoolS
 

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^^^^that is blinking huge!^^^^^

You got all that space in a new house


I didn't know about that 90 degree business. Ours is along the trusses. To be honest mate if you can don't let them put the fibre stuff up there. I'm not 100% convinced even by completely sealing off exposure to the material it will stop the fibre entering the air. If you've got to move the material by 90 degrees it will be everywhere.

I'm quite concerned I'll go to all the building trouble and find the fibres won't go even after sealing the material off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Yeah - there should be loads of room in the loft - 10 mtr by 5 mtr - only thing stopping me using it all is the loft hatch is in a weird place.... and Im currently pressurising the plumber to put the header tank out the way to give as much availible floor space a possible.

I agree with ya on the fiber bit - it may get all over the place, but itll be a suck it and see thing I guess...

Insulation - t'n'g chip board floor - carpet - and I reckon the fibres will find a way through that.....

Ill have to see and deal with it when I get that far..... its a point for consideration which I hope to share with ya closer to the time... 8 weeks to go.....

CoolS
 

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Lunch time over
but..

Hopefully I'll be finished in the next few weeks so I'll let you know regards to the fibres.

I've got T n G boards too but hadn't thought of carpet. What I am going to do though is use duct tape along the T n G lines to stop the fibres coming through and where the plaster board mounts to the boards and the horizontal joists to completely seal off the fibers.

Fingers crossed they won't come through. I'll be plenty miffed if they don't go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
QUOTE (ScoobyDriver @ 7 Sep 2004, 12:21)Lunch time over
but..

Hopefully I'll be finished in the next few weeks so I'll let you know regards to the fibres.

I've got T n G boards too but hadn't thought of carpet. What I am going to do though is use duct tape along the T n G lines to stop the fibres coming through and where the plaster board mounts to the boards and the horizontal joists to completely seal off the fibers.

Fingers crossed they won't come through. I'll be plenty miffed if they don't go.
Duct tape is a possible answer to it.......

As you say fingers crossed they wont get through..... Im praying that with the insulation being relativley new - like 2 weeks old before we move in - and if I dont mess with it too much when turning it - then I wont create such a mess....

Ill just have to find out.....

Good luck - hope it works out for ya...

CoolS
 

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CoolScientist,

Insulation for lofts tends to be Glasswool or rockwool mineral fibre wool anywhere from 150-250mm thickness.

Am an architectural designer Post part 2 in practice at the mo.

But there are alternatives.

You can ask your builder to look into Celotex with foil (vapour barrier) as its a rigid board. Obviously its more expensive, but it also means you could have, whats called, a floating floor (fixed to the top of the ceiling joists) of chipboard over the top.

Or you can create a warm roof. Glasswool between the rafters and over isulate the underside of the rafters with celotex. This will give you the necessary U-value, remove the fibre leakage, and create a warm loft. But you will need to have a breathable roof membrane (Tyvek) under the battens and tiles as well...... But your builder will be able to explain it better than a message.

Or a thinner (but probably more expensive still) is a product called tri-iso super 9 by actis (enigma insulations).....
Now this product is a seriesof layers, of foils etc etc.... thats about ten millimetres thick - equivalent to about 200mm of rockwool insulation.... however it is a fairly new material.....

Any way hope this helps

Kind regards
Peter
 

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CoolScientist,

Sorry did the previious message before reading your long won thoroughly regarding turning the insulation 90 degrees.

The NHBC trend and B Regs stipulate, that the better way of insulating the loft is to run the insulation between the joists first to the full depth of the ceiling tie. Then apply an additional layer of insulation running over that and the ceiling ties in the opposite direction. Hence 90 degree.

Firstly find out if this is the case?

If so, then I wouldn't recommend it, you may end up contravening the NHBC certificate if you rotate the insulation. if you then have a later problem, it could be your doing, and so therefore up to you to resolve the matter.

Second, speak to your builder again, they will have years of experience and ask there advice. There is always more than one answer when it comes to construction.

Third, look into where you would want to place the rooflights, in regard to sun patterns. North facing you get a gentle light, without the burning heat. You may also require planning and further building regulations approval. The heat and light you get from a rooflight is considerably more than from a vertical window, and heat could effect the track.

Fourth, check with the builder, as to what thickness rigid insulation you propose to add to the underside of the rafters, as it sounds like its a cold roof situation. And you do not want to penetrate, or disturb the roofing felt. If the roofing felt comes into contact with the insulation it could allow condensation build up and subsequent water damage.

Again I hope this helps you, and please let me know how you get on if you need any further advice via. email [email protected]

Kind regards
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hey Peter

Thanks for that info - most informative post... Ive had the discusion withe the builder already regarding the insulation.

You are correct - its a cold roof situation, and the builder will ony complete the loft to the current regs - and design as stipulated in the plans. Havinga greed this 14 months ago - and I wasnt considering a loft track back then - Im kinda stuck with the the plans that are in place. With being so near to completion of the build - any changes I want to make - have to go back to planning - so even a small change like a different type of insulation, will take a number of weeks to reslove. Ive already had a 9 month argument - with no progress - due to 4 trees that dont exist, which has cost me over £30,000 in legal, administration and other cost relating to an unhelpfull. disorganised, and waste of space planning department at the council.

Yes - that is the case with the insulation - 2 layers..... one turned through 90 degrees..... My builder has said vertually what you have said... He wouldnt recommend turning it, and has said he will have to complete as per plan.

He has made a couple of suggestions - which ties in with my first explination... starting from - removing all loft insulation on the rafters and going for a "warm roof" scenario as you explained earlier - but again - ita a plan change...

There is no roof light as yet - that will come at a later date - Because the house is being built within a redevelopment/conservation area - I cant get planning permission from a loft extension, until all developments have been completed. Becuase other houses are still in planning, if I re-submit before all other properties are through - it becomes along and slow process. I have been given dates from the council that extend to 3 years - before they would entertain a loft development on this site.

From the last year experience- I can advise that a NHBC build certificate (I was fortunate enough to study civil engineering and Quantity Surveying at Uni so I once had failth in the building industry) - isnt worth all that much anyway - for example - I went to purchase a house - and it was next to a landfill site. The house was 3 years old.... and on survey - did not contain any gas barrier in the underfloor construction (slab construction).... I went to the NHBC to claim under the 10 year repair/defect policy and they claimed.... "should have been checked by the building inspector from your local planning department - Any recourse you seek will have be through the planning commitiee - and any cost incurred will have to be claimed, eg removal of the floor, replacement of the relevant membrane, replace floor..." Its along story - but I didnt buy the house.... The current one - well if I do change the way the loft is insulated - it will be without any notifcation to either body and will be rectified prioir to selling or once a loft has gone in.

Im thinking at this time - Ill more likely be battening the rafters - over the top of the 90 degree insulation - with out turning it, would cause less fibre dust etc etc.

I do go on....... Cheers

CoolS
 

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Hey CoolS

Your latest design is really awesome. I always like to see a design that puts as much track on the table as possible.

On the R1s, I agree, regular R1s almost make you come to a complete stop to negotiate but Scaley's new Sport R1s that move the inside lane a tad closer to the outside of the curve are very easy for all my cars to get around - they race well. The hitch is you have to use the special lead-in and lead-out straights that squeeze the inside lane over.

Good luck with the insulation situation.

Paul
 

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Forgot to mention I've read that the Challenger car is limited to a total track length of 110 feet if you were thinking you might want to use it. I love the Challenger personally but if I had the space for close to a scale mile of track like your second design I'd be tempted to forget about it.

Paul
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hey Pault86..... Thank you for bringing that issue to light.... I hadnt made the calculation on the track length - and wheey hey... its only 1 foot short of a scale mile.....

With that being the case - Im gonna have to work on that as the final layout plan.... Theres gonna be a bit more invlved money wise..... I'll have to put some thought into it...

Yeah - it kind of buggers up challenger being that long... but challenger at this time isnt though to work with digital.... which was my main aim when first setting out on this project....

Ill be back with a update on the Loft - went to see it today..... gotta upload a new pic for yall later

Cheers

CoolS
 
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