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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All,

As I seemed to have kicked of a discussion on the event planning of a large scale 24hr event
I have started a new thread as is it was getting spread over several threads

So here is the post that kicked it all off -

QUOTE (DR STICKY @ 16 Jun 2011, 22:52)
i know we can't have it at gaydon (probably cost too much) but it's needs to be in that area
in middle of the country
but where?

Just one question why would you have to pay for a venue ?

I would say you would have no problem getting a venue for this type of event free of charge

Yes thats right FREE

Whilst not knocking anyone who tries to organise one of these event I think that they are going about it the wrong way but with the best intentions

First off a few points

Location Location Location - chose a venue that you can add value to

ie :- what do you (The Event) bring to the party - 60 people minimum ( 12 teams x 5 people )
Bar revenue - Food Revenue - Hotel room bookings

If it was me I would look at Hotels with Conference facilities

They have a large room to place a track
Hotel on site
Bar on site
Restaurant on site

You get the venue for FREE as they get room bookings - food sales ( make sure the Friday night meal is with them stress this at the earliest stage )

ie How would you like to have 60 people on site for 3 days not leaving the venue eating sleeping and drinking at your establishment ?

What manager is going to say No Thank you - then you lay out what you want and what they will get ( but what they will get is not set in stone )

Food for thought for those of you who wish to organise the next event ?

Michael
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
As the previous events have struggled to get off the ground and also failed to get of the ground

Lets start by looking at what we have to offer as an event not what we want from an event

If we only got 12 teams of the 16 lane track full for the 1st event that is 12 x 5 people = 60 people

All in one place for at least 36 hours

At least 1/2 would stay in a hotel on the first night and possibly 1/4 on the last night

If the event has a FRIDAY SATURDAY SUNDAY format Then on the Friday evening a group meal of at least 30 people plus bar spend

Saturday Morning - Breakfast for probably 45 people
Saturday Day - Lunch drinks etc for the full Field
Saturday evening - as them to quote for a buffet easy every one can eat
Sunday Morning - some more breakfasts
And for those staying till Monday morning more bar and food spend for them

So not a small change spend in this climate

Plus by the time you over sell it to the hosts

SO now over to costs ?

The track hire and running from Pendels ? is the major one

But what other costs does the event have ?

Michael
 

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Mark Wain
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All I know is i think North Staffs had to can the 24hr event because there needed to be 13/14 teams to just break even.

Obviously if the location was free these numbers are reduced.... However on the tracks you talking about you probably need a minimum of 12 teams for marshalling, depending on size of teams of course.

Location around the country, I'd love it to be on my doorstep same as most people
but you will never please everyone!

As for your figures for food etc I think you have missed out the extra staff costs for the owners of the venue......you really think they will leave 60+ big kids to our own devices all night?

Extra insurance may be an issue. Most venues will want electrical items tested/proof they have been tested recently. They may insist on an independent health and safety risk assessment

Also I'm tight.....I don't want to pay for overpriced drinks and food for 24hours, I'm sure they won't like you taking your own in!

By oversell do you mean lie? If so....... I like your style!
 

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I agree, Michael's hit the nail on the head as far as venues go. I remember the British GP used to be held at the Blakemore Thistle Hotel back in the early 90's and that used to work really well. And when it moved to the holiday camp at Hastings it was always a good crack.

I think if you look at the world through rose coloured spectacles and money was no object, then having a 24 hour at a motorsport related venue would be cool. This is in no way meant disrespectfully to the guys at North Staffs as I know they put in a massive effort to get this years Bentley 24 off the ground, but I don't think holding an event at a high class venue like Bentley would entice entrants much more than holding it at a Hotel or even at a local club if they had the space.
I also don't think that it clashing with Le mans was as much of a factor as a lot of people are making out, it's only televised on satellite and cable after all. So unless you actually went to France...

What amazed me about the NSR 24 hour in Italy was that the venue was really nothing special. There were only two Bogs to service around 150 racers, there was nowhere to sleep and the catering facilities were rudimentary at best. But nobody cared, everyone just got on with it. We used to run an anal 24 hour at Molesey when we were in the old hut which barely had room for the track let alone anywhere to sleep and that was a really well supported event with teams regularly attending from Holland and Belgium.

Apologies if you read this on the Molesey forum, but I thought I'd copy it to a more relevant thread.

My point is, I know we all like our creature comforts but maybe we're concentrating too much on the quality of the venue rather than the spirit of what an endurance event is all about.

Possibly, trying to find 16 teams to fill both tracks might be a tall order so maybe using one track would be a better place to start and try and build the entry year on year. At least that way the venue wouldn't have to be quite so monstrous on the first running.

When I was in Italy several people from Spain and Belgium did show an interest in travelling to the UK to do a big endurance event, so maybe advertising on foreign forums could be worthwhile too.
 

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Most venues are quite busy at any time, and are constantly bringing in revenue, so the idea that you would get this for free is remote.you would also be occupying the room for at least 4 days, so 2 days with no one spending.
Mark is correct in that the North Staffs 24 hour was a no profit event, the venue was a good deal with good facilities, the truth is that people do not commit to the events, our cost compared to overseas is low, but still we are unable to field a full set of teams. without a full commitment from those that say they are going to race. It would be a very brave person to organise another 24 hour event, and I would think that I would be asking for the full payment of each team very early in the planning stage. What people don't see taking place is the endless telephone conversations, and discussions on the requirements for these events tables,chairs lighting, food requirements, parking accessibility, fire procedures, the list goes on. all this is done in good faith that the event will be viable one.
Regards Dave M
 

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it's all to do with money
okay if we say use a hotel the track has to be put up at least a day inadvance so no profit to the hotel for the dead function room
if you have to stop over on the friday/sunday night again an on cost
buffet from the hotel many would chose to find there own cheaper food brought in by them selfs
for a five man team just to race is £25 + fuel + food +plus his share to put the car together could end up being £100 or more

as skid mark pointed out it does not need to be a palace it needs to do the job

Robbo
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
QUOTE (backMARKer @ 17 Jun 2011, 23:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However on the tracks you talking about you probably need a minimum of 12 teams for marshaling, depending on size of teams of course.

As for your figures for food etc I think you have missed out the extra staff costs for the owners of the venue......you really think they will leave 60+ big kids to our own devices all night?

Extra insurance may be an issue. Most venues will want electrical items tested/proof they have been tested recently. They may insist on an independent health and safety risk assessment

Also I'm tight.....I don't want to pay for overpriced drinks and food for 24hours, I'm sure they won't like you taking your own in!

By oversell do you mean lie? If so....... I like your style!


Re the track - With that much track how flexible is the design ?

Staff Costs - I would tend think hotels have staff on at night anyway as the have guests on site so they can't just lockup and go home

Pat test on Electrical I would take it that Pendels would have this anyway

H&S Risk assessment is pretty easy and tends to be down to the venue to do as they are hosting it - You can't just say it OK heres my event its perfectly safe
Also they are much easier than people make them out ot be

Lots of hotel have beefeaters etc and they are not overpriced - But they again a little support for the venue could get the even off the ground

As they say "How long do you spend doing the same things and expecting a different outcome ? before you change what you are doing"

Oversell - You are not guaranteeing anything just setting out what might happen its up to them to crunch the numbers - Also a good way to get an even better deal the next year as you say it wasn't quite as good as we hoped what can we do to go forward next year? this was the 1st year so next time is even better etc etc ...

Good post Skidmark - hopefully a few more will join in soon and this could get off the ground as once it is up and running then it can be fitted to more what we want - but if its not happening at the moment a new approach may be needed and that is what I am trying to show - it may not work either

Michael
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
QUOTE (backMARKer @ 17 Jun 2011, 23:02) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Also I'm tight.....I don't want to pay for overpriced drinks and food for 24hours, I'm sure they won't like you taking your own in!

QUOTE (DR STICKY @ 18 Jun 2011, 00:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>it's all to do with money
if you have to stop over on the friday/sunday night again an on cost
buffet from the hotel many would chose to find there own cheaper food brought in by them selfs
for a five man team just to race is £25 + fuel + food +plus his share to put the car together could end up being £100 or more
Robbo

Well as far as I can see if you want to pay nothing you tend to get nothing

I suppose it come down to how much do you want to pay ? is it a cheap weekend £50 max or £150 ?

If we look at it as a weekend and each person paid say £ 125 for the weekend for hotel - breakfast and 1 dinner that would give you a budget of £7500

But what value do you put on this event ? what would you pay ?
 

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QUOTE (Skid mark @ 17 Jun 2011, 23:58) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What amazed me about the NSR 24 hour in Italy was that the venue was really nothing special. There were only two Bogs to service around 150 racers, there was nowhere to sleep and the catering facilities were rudimentary at best.
What cost per team was this event?
 
G

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QUOTE (DR STICKY @ 17 Jun 2011, 23:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>for a five man team just to race is £25 + fuel + food +plus his share to put the car together could end up being £100 or more

Robbo

Comparable to the money spent on an SIC weekend i think.
 

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Lee Green
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What about , we do a sort of endurance series ? Where like the sic we have 6 teams do the competition for the whole year, yes this may exclude some but at least it gets the idea of endurance into peoples minds, maybe 3 rounds one being Graeme's track and the other two possibly being around 2 of the other sic round tracks ? Make it 6 of the fastest clubs that race in the sic or something ? or just whoever is doing graemes one this year and those that consistently do events .

Just a thought ....
 

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Lee Green
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QUOTE (Bentley @ 18 Jun 2011, 00:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What cost per team was this event?

£200 i believe , you have to provide your own spares etc and car
 

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Just an idea for a venue, although I don't now how feasible it is...how about running at a motor racing circuit along side a 24hr race of some sort, for example Silverstone have the Britcar 24 hour race at the end of September and the 2CV's have a 24 hour race at Snetterton in November.

These sorts of places will be have staff on all time and I bet they could find a room large enough, the only downside would be the fact you'd need to find hotels away from the circuits (I think?)

My guess is that running a car event at somewhere like that, they wouldn't charge for a room, I may be wrong as I don't know but I'd be surprised if they did.

Think of all the interest slot cars would get at such an event?
 

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This thread gives me the feeling of deja vu, can't think why


In order to make a future event possible i think it is a priority to find out if there is the demand before someone undertakes the massive task of putting together the event.
If there isn't the demand in the first place then try as you might it is very difficult to complete the full line up.
The Wolverampton 24hr 2010 was very close to a full grid, it was thought that following the success of this event a second event would be much easier to stage. Unfortunately that wasn't the case.
What is needed first is a commitment from 16 teams / clubs or individuals who will fully commit themselves to organising themselves / fellow club members / friends etc to forming a team.
If this is possible then a venue needs to be found and a date fixed.
I have also wondered if the choice of cars being raced had a bearing on the success of these events. Would a change from the usual Slot.it Endurance cars be worthwhile ?
Sean
 

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With regards to a change of car type, It could be a good idea, but it has to be a type of car that is
1) Popular (we found out that at haynes)
2) Easy for spares to source
3) Good prices and good quality of car that will last the full 24hrs. Slot its fit the job perfectly

Jake
 

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Mark Wain
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I know you get what you pay for Micheal, and entrance fees, hotel bills, some meals is fine. I probably do it once a month.

What I'm saying is, your area if you have the facilities and put a 24hr race on I'm sure North Staffs would field a team.

However, and this is only from experience of the local area, being stuck somewhere you have to pay £3 for a coke for 30 hours is not ideal (they wouldn't let you take your own drinks in)

Like I say though, if you arrange it I'm sure North Staffs would support you by entering a large 24hr event
 
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I posted this on the Molesey site a couple of days ago.

Perhaps a new topic/thread should be started regarding a 16 lane 24 hour event next year but for know i will add to this one.
If 16 teams can be found (unlikely) and a deposit paid (returnable only if the event is cancelled) then it may be worth looking in to finding a venue.
Michael is quite correct in stating that a venue COULD be found for free if rooms, meals etc were purchased on site.
There are other possibilities including a large marquee which can be heated if required. There is enough land outside our club for that.
Car showrroms have been used for an event in the past so does anyone work in a car dealership. These are well lit and have toilets and could be good publicity for said dealership.
There are a miriad of possibilities but transport of the track etc has to be factored in to the equation.
Ultimately it all comes down to interest. No one wishes to do a load of work, as Bentley did, for it all to fall flat again.
 

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So I guess the burning question is: Who's up for it? I know there are an awful lot of factors that will ultimately influence peoples decision as to whether they participate or not: Time of year, cost, location, type/make of car, other commitments, whether it's a full moon, to name but a few. But it would be nice to get a virtual show of hands to see if this conversation is worth continuing any further, because without bums on seats we sadly are flogging a very dead horse.

It would also be helpful if those who have reservations about taking part actually give some feedback as well, rather than just keeping schtum. No ones going to send round the heavies if you don't fancy it.
It would just be nice to know why.
 

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QUOTE (Jake D @ 18 Jun 2011, 15:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>With regards to a change of car type, It could be a good idea, but it has to be a type of car that is

3) Good prices and good quality of car that will last the full 24hrs. Slot its fit the job perfectly

Jake

Not necessarily as I find these cars too good as nowt goes wrong with them (Unless you drive one poorly or crash it)

I'd prefer an element of maintenance required & not just routine tyre changes, just my opinion.
 
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