[Spurman]

I would like some opinions as to which older 16D motors had the most get up and go !
Sure, we have all come across motors that; for some odd reason or another; just flew
and were freaks. In the pics, I have shown some real fliers, and possibly the Chong is
unchallenged , but the Lenz and French are not too far behind, and the Dynamic Green Hornet
will keep up for a few laps, then slowly diminishes as it heats up. Any input, comments and
experience with these motors, and any other hot motor of the era, would be greatly appreciated!

Zig

 

[howmet tx]

Wow! Some choice vintage cuts there, Zig. No idea which one is best, but they look nice 'n tasty to me....

 

[dgersh]

Hi Zig,

Good to see you back on the board! Travels over for now?

It really depends on which model of each is involved, and from your photos it looks like the Chong is the only later model motor, with post protectors, magnet shim, etc. So it would normally be the fastest one of this bunch... Plus, I used a Chong on my first Thingie Proxie car and it won (even tho largely due to one of Gene's chassis...), so that's always a good recommendation. They seem to be very well built, very reliable motors.

I would think in pure RPM the Lenz or Dynamic might be the fastest, but that doesn't mean they're the fastest on the track - and any of these could blow up at a moment's notice! Model Car Science tested a few of the hotter motors in 1967-68 and published their results, that's about the only comparison tests I've seen from the time. Maybe this is your chance: get a standard Dynamic chassis, and try each one on a Blue King...

Good idea for a thread, hope you don't mind if I add a few when I get a chance!

Don

 

[dgersh]

A couple more hot or not so hot 16D size motors... starting with two hemi types, first one a Mura, second perhaps a Pactra but not sure if it's a real Pactra model or combined parts...

We Are the Champions!

Too hot for most of our vintage races!

Don

 

[howmet tx]

Look, Don, seeing as it's got that messy thumbprint on it and is obviously not suitable for display, I'll take that right hand motor off you. Free up some space in your drawers, if you know what I mean.

Always anxious to help,

Howmet

 

[one27ray]

Some really nice old motor stuff there guys, some people have all the luck,

Hey... good luck with that John

i-noda-motoa

 

[dgersh]

QUOTE (howmet tx @ 7 Feb 2012, 21:14) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Look, Don, seeing as it's got that messy thumbprint on it and is obviously not suitable for display, I'll take that right hand motor off you. Free up some space in your drawers, if you know what I mean.

Always anxious to help,

Howmet

Gee that's awfully generous of you Mr. Howmet, and I'd really like to help, but some guy from the FBI just called and wants to check out the thumbprint. Says that neither me nor the motor should leave the country in the meantime, "if you know what's good for you".

Maybe in a couple years...

Don

 

[Jairus Watson]

Warming up motor suggests bad contact and weak magnets. I would suggest you freshen up the those vintage powerplants with a good magnet zap, brush tube alignment and com cutting. THEN test them on the dyno.

Nice collection by the way.

 

[Spurman]

Thanks Howmet ! Yes please Don go for it ! You are right Don , I have many 16D motors , and some rev very hard , then you place them in a chassis , and do the laps , and just no go ! Then you can place a motor which don't rev as hard , and it goes like a scalded cat ! You would think that higher revs would propel more , but magnetic pull of armature , wire used , contacts -- the list goes on - play a huge part in overall performance ! Even two motors ( say we use 2 new Classic 16D motors for argument sake ) , they will have differing performance ---- each may have been constructed out of the same materials --- yet performance will differ . So , are we to assume that each motor out there is unique -- and like a human fingerprint ? Zig

 

[Spurman]

I agree Jairus -- get those magnets pulling ! I also do a service on the comm , and brushes , and also oil the shafts either end ! For the comm ,
I use this green fluid ( reminds me of the Incredilble Hulk's urine sample ) , and it's called Voodoo Contact Enchancer . The stuff is pretty good , and you can also use it before racing , and it gives the motor a little extra zip ! Zig

 

[Jairus Watson]

I only have one rewind left. Seems all that I have in my hands end up going into someone else's project....

The above little Mura rewind came out of a nice ebay find that I purchased just for the U-go chassis. The motor was a bonus and turns out to be just the thing for a future project that requires such a motor. I plan to send it to John Havlicek for a com turning, new brushes and a magnet zap prior to installation. Right now it spins up nicely and sounds great! But I just know it will heat up under load. Magnets do not stay static over time and that car dated back to the late 60's making those magnets over 40 years old!
It's a shame the paint is chipping so badly, but to repaint it would destroy the historical value I figure.

 

[Spurman]

Hi Jairus , great motor you have there ! I also noticed it has gold paint under the silver Mura paint !!! If you have a look at my Lenz motor - 2nd from bottom in the stock pile picture , I placed on this thread - it too has gold paint under the blue of the Lenz paint , and both can ends are the same !!! Now those motors in gold , I am pretty sure are Russkit colours ! See if I can dig a Russkit motor up and take a pic of it ! So , why did the re-wind guys decide on these motors ? Zig

 

[dgersh]

Zig, among other things it was one of the few of the later FT16D series with the metallic brush holders and endball drive, which was the preferred layout at the time by the pro guys and the rest of us! Easier to mount in brass chassis in any case...

Maybe Russkit also had some kind of distribution deal, because a lot of companies used their Russkit 22 and 33 in early RTR cars, and a lot of the rewind companies used the 23 as their building block...

K&B offered the Wildcat, which was also an endbell drive 16D, but with the floating rear bearing usually seen on the can drive models - don't think any companies rewound those.

A pair of Russkit 23s from an earlier thread...

Don

 

[Spurman]

Ok , here are the Russkit motors , and I also included the Lenz motor . The Russkit motor
with the black label is a Russkit 22 , and the Red labelled Russkit is a 23 . The Lenz uses
the Russkit 23 as its cocoon . You will also notice that the comm ends differ between the
22 aand 23 . The Russkit 22 has TKK and Japan on the plastic comm end , while the
Russkit 23 and Lenz have FT-140 and Japan ! Zig

PS - you beat me to the punch Don , but great input as well , thanks !

 

[Spurman]

Don , I forgot to add ---- you are so so right about the can end on those Russkit 22 and 23 motors --- so hard to repair , especially after the milage has accrued !
The free play is huge sometimes at the can end . I have added all sorts of tiny washers , brass inserts etc , to fix the free play , but this seems to be a quick fix , and short term repair . The motors seem to lose balance when the can end luches itself ! Zig

 

[bill from nh]

A small Mura or Champion endbell bushing, soldered in the cans, is a good replacement for the factory blind bushings.

 

[Spurman]

Thanks for that Bill . Any particular type of solder I should use , in case of melt down ? Zig

 

[300SLR]

QUOTE (Spurman @ 9 Feb 2012, 06:01) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Thanks for that Bill . Any particular type of solder I should use , in case of melt down ? Zig
Any solder will do.
When soldering it in, only the parts of teh can near the bearing reach soldering temperature.
In practical use other things will fail due to overheating before the bearing gets anywhere near soldering temperature.

 

[merkit the grof]

A vintage motor thread, great!!!

Here is a very rare beast, although not a proper 16D, it is the right size motor.
Back then, there were many many US rewinders, but UK ones were almost non existant.

Here a rewind made up of a Rikochet can/magnet with a Rikoflash endbell
When I bought the first one, I thought it was a home wind, but I later found the 2nd one fitted to a chassis.
Last, I found a magazine article describing it

Here is the Taylor Tuned Motor, not quite as sexy as an Orange Picker or a Thumbprint, but much rarer.

It is fitted with this armature

And here a magazine article about it

Now a coupe of US rewinds

Lenz Hemi with silver winding

Unknown rewind , Russkit 23 painted metalic red

Joel

 

[Spurman]

Hi Joel , and thanks so much for your input . I looked at some of my spare motors ,
and the Taylor Tuned Motor , definately started life out as a Hitachi , as per my pic.

Now for the Lenz - Wow , never seen a Lenz conversion , made from a Strombeck Hemi !
That is a first for me , and no doubt for many others - thanks for including that rare motor .

Next , the mystery red over gold job ---- best I could come up with as far as ID ,
could be a Monogram ??? But I am not sure if Monogram ever sprayed over the gold of the
Russkit cans . Your motor has a Russkit can -- but the rest is a mystery to me !

I also added in my picture , this unusual Testor motor , made in Japan . You will see it has
a balanced armature -- and possibly this could be an old re-wind . So , if anybody has any
info on those Testor motors - it would be interesting to know if the armatures were balanced
as stock issue . This motor does have some serious sting ! Zig