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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
McLaren has made the point that no matter how many club members you have turn up for an evenings racing a proportion will have to marshall and a proportion will have pit time.

Basically I like 100% race action and at home you get this as you self marshall if you come off and pit time is non existant.

Accepting that club racing is a more intensive affair than home racing then some pit time just to sit down and wind down if nothing else is desirable. And the larger circuits mean that self marshalling is not possible so marshalls are required.

Now I did speak about the possibilty of 18 club racers racing at the same time on 3 different 2 lane very large digital circuits which could be accomodated in similar space to that currently required for a large club 6 lane circuit.

The size of these 2 lane circuits would offer a "wow" factor for the home racer so lets not get into the debate of whether you could draw home racers to clubs if you only had 2 lane circuits.

Remember also that marshalling would be much easier as there would be no lane colours so it could be that the ratio of marshalls to racers would be lower.

Now to the point.

Analogue racing by its very nature permits no more than 8 racers to race at a time on a very large 8 lane circuit. Then there is marshalling time and pit time. Ultimately there is a natural tendency for clubs to get to a membership point where there is a balance of member numbers as folk will leave as a result of not liking the limited racing time due to the number of members attending which is offset my new members who turn up and who short term do not mind waiting around for their turn to race.

Given that it would be possible to expand an existing club by offering digital racing thus permitting more club members to race at any one time then this would permit clubs to expand and increase membership and the ratio of racing time to non racing time would be (probably) much higher.

However, do clubs consider that it is possible to expand or are we at the limits of membership right now?

A move to digital could be a catalyst that permits club membership to increase.

Do clubs actually want to increase membership?

The biggest handicap to club creation is that of finding a suitable (and cheap) location for club to reside.

2 lane digital racing could well be a catalyst for new clubs to spring up as it would clearly be much easier to set up a temporary 2 lane digital circuit (in a hired hall for example) than a 4 or 6 lane temporary analogue circuit. Existing clubs who have a spare room could create a second digital circuit to boost interest at the club.

Do existing clubs feel threatened by the advent of the digital age or is it seen as an opportunity?

I would be more inclined to get to a club on a regular basis if:-

1) it was local (no more than 5-10 minutes drive)
2) it had a very high ratio of race time

There may well be a large silent majority who feel the same way as me. My view is that digital slot car racing is more likely to fascilitate the above as a result of the ease of set up for multi car racing.


Moped
 

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Gary Skipp
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QUOTE folk will leave as a result of not liking the limited racing time

Those people are just lazy. You can't have all take and no give.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

However, I *think* see your point. With 15 up at a time (DAVIC) then there wouldn't be as many marshals.
 

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Jesus wept, Mope. Let it go, hey? You never cease to show up your complete lack of understanding of what motivates the club racer or makes a club 'work'.

If you want to give folks a wow factor, hit 'em with the biggest circuit you can build in the space you have - don't dick about with multiple layouts. K.I.S.S.

For every turn you have, you need a marshall. If you have one marshall covering two turns as soon as a shunt happens at one, and he's attending the scene of an incident at another, you will get hacked off racers. These are competitive people. They don't like dicking about.

But you are kinda right, the limit for some clubs is their venue - it physically isn't possible for some clubs to cater for too many racers; there ain't enough standing room around the track. Please don't jump on this and say, "Ha, ha! With digital they don't need such a big track!" because if that is the case, if they were really going to be happy on little sawn-off circuits where the straight is four pieces long, then they don't need the venue at all! They should be at home, in a loft or in a garage.

Let's nail this on the head, for me, and I suspect the majority of club goers, the attraction is a BIG, LONG circuit. Shoot me down if I'm wrong. If digital works at all on the club scene it will be with BIG LONG circuits.

Please believe, I am trying very hard to stay away from Digital threads as I appreciate that I may bore some folks with it and my life is too short.

I will try harder.
 

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QUOTE Let's nail this on the head, for me, and I suspect the majority of club goers, the attraction is a BIG, LONG circuit.

Bingo!

and everyone likes to hold down the trigger for more than just a moment.
If your lucky enough to have a detailed layout, its even better.,


But realistically, clubs are about people. Its success is a balance between attaining progression of the initial concept as well as dealing with many differing individual wants and yet still be able to achieve that small degree of satisfaction for every individual requirement of what the members expect a race night / club to be.


Has it been mentioned that Digital racing is also an opportunity for the fasties to jump into other lanes and keep ramming everyone else out of the way. You'll need extra marshalls for that.
 

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Allan Wakefield
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QUOTE McLaren has made the point that no matter how many club members you have turn up for an evenings racing a proportion will have to marshall and a proportion will have pit time.

I don't think this is what he meant Mope' anyway.

What IS right is that no matter how many people turn up for an evenings racing, they will ALL have to spend a proportion of their time marshalling and a proportion of their time in the pits or relaxing.

This is a natural part of the scene and is accepted by everyone. I suspect it is very rare (and OTT imho) for a club to offer marshalls at their club who do only that in order that the racers can just race. Anyway I like to talk to my fellow racers and I dont talk when I am racing so...

I am also with Wankel - LARGE and impressive or even just detailed is what gives the 'wow' factor not the number of small homeset like tracks. IF you can offer a combination of the above then even better.

For Digital, and as far as Swiss Race Bahn is concerned, we are thinking about building Digital into Mugello and Suzuka BUT only as a seperate system and only if we can still use a normal set up because Digital is NOT going to rock everyones world and although it is swish and potentially exciting it is NOT THE only way forward mate - sorry to burst your bubble.

Anopther option we have talked about is to have basic plastic tracks in use as they are and then another system like DAVIC (expensive though) or Xlots ideas on a wood track and implement Digital that way, as a seperate entity giving a totally new perspective.
 

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Interesting points Moped.


Essentially, I consider your points of view to be valid. Having been a club racer, I have experienced the ups and owns of club racing. The size of the venue, truly does limit the capabilities of a club. And having 1 large track, did attract me to the club I went to. It was a 45 minute drive, 20 miles of motorway - 20 miles of country road.

The first time I went to the club - Molesey - I had never raced on such a circuit and I was amazed. A tiny club house, with enough room for about 18 racers, with there kit boxes and set up gear made the place warm and cosey...

With anymore than 18 racers it became hard to fit all races into the 3 hour race night. The more racers, the less room, the more discussion, the more competitiveness, the more arguments about specifics, etc. The more delays between races.

5 marshallers could effectively marshall the track, with 6 racing - plus 1 making brews, plus running race control.Having 3 circuits would mean more to offer to the racer, but I dont agree that 3 tracks, would attract more people. However - a 6 lane Davic system would offer more to a club - A track as big as possible with up to 15 racing would be a great attraction.

There is the posibility that using any manurfactureres track, to be able to run a plexi track, 6 lane circuit - with upto 18 racing, but that would mean Molesey would run 18 racers, 1 making brews, and 1 running race control - definatly need 5 marshallers, thats 25 people. I only ever remember having 21 people in there, and that was a nightmare.

For me - its run as large a circuit as possible - Keep it friendly, keep it affordable, keep it competative, enjoy your night. There is a market for digital racing in the club format, but its a young age. When digital matures, and gets into the market place, I truly feel it will blossom but, there will always be that contingent, who love the hobby as it is. That we cant change. In 10 years time it may be a novelty to go to a club and race standard, 1 car, 1 lane racing... Smaller clubs may choose this format, to start, then as they develop and grow, may build up and move onto a system like Davic.

No matter what, people and clubs only have a limited budget, track is expensive, most clubs bumble along with just enough people to pay the rates, heating, water and electrical bills. Lets not forget maintance costs etc. Not everybody whats to be involved in the upkeep of a club, not everyone has time, and its only the dedicated ones, who do everything to keep a club going - thats a fact of life.

I do ramble on but - time will tell on digital in clubs. My personal opinon is thus.

2 lane digital track - 6 racers - a scale mile plus track - in a 8 meter x 2.4 area - easy to marshal, with room for every one to do pitwork - be social and competitive would be an awesome night out - to chill and relax - and enjoy the limited time off I have off from work.

Long live the club, and the home racing enviroment


CoolS
 

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Why do you continue to post the same subject over and over again? If you're going to set up a digital track for commercial use then just do it. And good luck to you, it's your chance to prove the nay sayers wrong. Otherwise, just drop it, the horse has been dead for months now.
 

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Jeez moped, what are you on? Most of us have to drive miles, an hour in my case, (by your logic there would be a club every few streets away!) to get to a club circuit and when we get there we dont dick about! We are there to race and if we aint racing we marshall. Now, I am trying to understand what your over-long post is all about, but with more people racing there wouldn't be enough marshall's for a digital club track, so for christ sake who wants it anyway??????

Not that I would go to a club using scalex track! Stick to playing on you bedroom floor! God you come out with it dont you?
 

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Whoa, we have a new Moped bashing king! I surrender my crown.... Only joking...

I'd never give away my crown


QUOTE God you come out with some rubbish dont you?

I know that's how we all feel at some point, but after the PM from Nuro, you should calm down a bit (I think the envelope has powdered tranquilizers in it...)

McLaren

PS. You might want some puctuation in that quote up there... Unless you weren't talking to Moped after all....


[Wankel - edit to the quote]
I know, I know, I so want to swear in my replies sometimes too!
 

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Hey,


I think a few people are missing the point of a club....We all go for the racing, to drive our new or old shiny cars around a black track....we all want to win and to be the best....not always possible........


The main reason that sees us going back week after week is the;

Banter,

The chat,

The help

FUN.


I dont mind what I do.....in a race night I marshall, Chat, Swear (at Alex) Fix Cars, Test Cars and also try and do a bit of competitive racing whilst there!.

Its soon gets boring racing cars round a home track, however big or complicated it maybe. You just cant beat good old competition!.

Luckily my club is 3 miles away and has a decent Kebab shop nearby too!. Shame the pubs are closed when we finish!.

Enjoy your racing, where ever it be!


Neil
 

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Sorry guys if my comments seem non PC but whats the point of having a forum if you cant express yourself? It seems to me that Moped can come out with anything he likes and all you lot do is laugh it off.

Maybe I should lighten up, and go hehe after every comment? Instead of voicing how I really feel.
 

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If you are implying that we ignore Moped in the interestes of not bringing down the forum with us, then yes, sometimes we do. He does speak a lot of shite, but you do really have to calm down, and stop using the personal insults.

If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times, but the reason I nearly always reply to Moped's posts are that he is invariably.... well, not telling the truth, and I feel that I should correct him, so that others reading the forum will not go away with incorrect information. Unfortunatly, most of the time, it boils down to me saying he's wrong, and him starting a new thread.

I think most people know what he's like now, and therefore, try to only reply if it's constructive. I know I try...

McLaren

PS. For background reading see some of my old posts to Mope...
 

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Allan Wakefield
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But you all have to be careful that you are not seeing ONLY the name of the poster and deciding a Retort is required regardless of content.

Moped has this effect and the way people view him sometimes leads to an overheated thread when a few minutes taken to digest the content would result in a totally different reply.

I am also guilty of this btw!


Still learning to count to ten, take a deep breath and reread all posts before replying....
 

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Jamie Coles
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Is this a record for a Moped post?

222 words to get to the point - as he himself pointed out. there may be other posts where the point is NEVER got to I s'pose!!

Anway back to the thread.

"Club Membership size and ratios" - marshalling is a must to clear cars - but I prefer the crash and burn approach as that avoids the "over" competitive driver wreaking havoc and getting the opportunity to do it when put back on - whilst probably yelling at the mnarshalls to do it faster.

But that is another subject.

Digital is NOT an assumption due to a number of reasons - 1) cost 2) compatibility with existing track and or cars 3) there is no option for wooden tracks (bet I'm wrong there).

So I would guess the majority of clubs will, I doubt be affected by digital - so the argument is pretty much worthless.

As for clubs being withing 10 minutes of one's home - if that is so important why not set up a club nearby or move house !!

Personally I drive about 15 minutes to test and race cars for about 3 hours against about 8 or 9 other drivers with varying skills. I would guess at least half of that time I am on the track (or in the catch fencing) abnd the remainder watching and chatting (we call it marshalling).

Don't think I'd have as much fun in someone's bedroom - well certainly not Moped's !!

J-c
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
QUOTE Personally I drive about 15 minutes to test and race cars for about 3 hours against about 8 or 9 other drivers with varying skills. I would guess at least half of that time I am on the track (or in the catch fencing) abnd the remainder watching and chatting (we call it marshalling).

There are not many clubs where the ratio of racing time to club time is 50%. Typically your might get 7 Nr races lasting 3-4 minutes over 3 hours so the ratio is normally around the 12%-15% mark. The clubs around where I live all have a fairly large membership. I would join any local club instantly that has a 50% ratio of racing time to club time but then so would a lot of folk I suspect so the ratios are very rapidly going to drop again.

To guarantee certain ratios would require a membership restriction. Digital has to help with this ratio as it developes.


Moped
 

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I agree with you that the amount of time on a track is important but you have not considered all aspects of the division of total time spent at the club. I open at 6 and racing starts at 7.30. That practise time is split into 4 minute sessions and shared between all members.

After the competitive races are completed there is a further 2 hours or longer until the power is switched off. Overall; that`s a lot of play time split between on average 30 members. Having said all that I agree that Digital can only increase the amount of total time spent competitively racing, so I am looking forward to testing it out.

To be fair you have made a sound point but forgot to highlight the quality of whatever time is spent racing. You cannot race against a load of other people on a very large six lane circuit circuit at home. You may be able to fit a few of the lads in at home but the banter, humour and sociability of a good club cannot be beaten...in my opinion.
 

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QUOTE ...but the banter, humour and sociability of a good club cannot be beaten...in my opinion.

Mine too.

When Mope is a club regular I'll listen to him on the subject (Ooh, could be a lie in there) but until then...

And remember, not all clubs are the same. Oxford runs in a pretty similar fashion to the old Maidenhead club: we don't take it too seriously, we don't do inter-club competitions (witness Eastcote arriving and destroying us on our home track. Sheesh!) but we do have a smile and some racing.
 

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MECO! I just saw your name as watching this thread!

Welcome back you old sod!
 

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I have rarely, probably never, seen such a jumbled post as the starter here.
About the only thing that looms out of the fog is the reason for the writer professing to like digital so much. It's the apparent mathematical inability to work with a number system as large as base ten.

A three bit binary seems to be the best that this one can handle.

Three piddling home circuits is NOT an attraction compared with one huge one.
The amount of marshalls required will certainly NOT be reduced but almost certainly need to be increased.
The theoretically possible numbers of drivers and their station space plus a bunch of marshalls for each circuit plus access way plus viewing space would drastically reduce the space available for a good long track which is one of the absolute PRIME attractions of any club.

This is the usual old gobbledigook, posted with the sole purpose of provoking argument and thus boosting the figures.
That's ALL it does, adding nothing to anyone's knowledge.
It seems nothing changes.
 
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