[beardy56]

I think the important part is in the terms of use link below, scroll down to paragraph 3 of the submissions section which states you are only giving a licence, not transferring ownership, to VerticalScope but that they can use your data and submissions how they see fit without a fee. I didn't copy the section as I'm not sure that is allowed under them terms of the forum.

 

[Dopamine]

Congratulations Beardy. At least someone had the patience to read the small print! You made me read it too, and I agree with you that posters are only giving a licence, not ownership, to VS (it actually says SlotForum.com, but I imagine they're one and the same).

However, the licence is irrevocable and perpetual, so in effect it seems to amount to the same as relinquishing ownership. You still own it, but you have no control over the version of it you posted on the forum, or any subsequent copies and derivatives of the original post. We need a decent lawyer to chip in and explain it, rather than all of us doing our best at guesswork!

Mind you, I agree with Jeepster. Unless its reproduction is depriving you of an income, are you really bothered? After all, most of us are using the forum without paying to do so, so VS have to make their money from somewhere. If they have the wherewithal and business nous to make a few pence from a photo of a slot car or digital chip or anything else we post, it seems like a reasonable deal to me.

https://www.verticalscope.com/aboutus/tos.php?site=slotforum.com

Submissions.

You agree to grant to SLOTFORUM.COM a non exclusive, royalty free, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, sublicense, create derivative works of, publicly display, publish and perform any materials and other information you submit to any public areas, chat rooms, bulletin boards, newsgroups or forums of SLOTFORUM.COM or which you provide by email or any other means to SLOTFORUM.COM and in any media now known or hereafter developed. Further, you grant to SLOTFORUM.COM the right to use your name and or user name in connection with the submitted materials and other information as well as in connection with all advertising, marketing and promotional material related thereto, together with use on any other VerticalScope Inc. web sites. You agree that you shall have no recourse against VerticalScope Inc. for any alleged or actual infringement or misappropriation of any proprietary right in your communications to SLOTFORUM.COM.

 

[GregK]

@ Slotspeed ........ your post seemed to suggest that I should add a copyright tag .... but not in my name .......... :lmfao:

 

[slotterkeith]

Congratulations Beardy. At least someone had the patience to read the small print! You made me read it too, and I agree with you that posters are only giving a licence, not ownership, to VS (it actually says SlotForum.com, but I imagine they're one and the same).

However, the licence is irrevocable and perpetual, so in effect it seems to amount to the same as relinquishing ownership. You still own it, but you have no control over the version of it you posted on the forum, or any subsequent copies and derivatives of the original post. We need a decent lawyer to chip in and explain it, rather than all of us doing our best at guesswork!

Mind you, I agree with Jeepster. Unless its reproduction is depriving you of an income, are you really bothered? After all, most of us are using the forum without paying to do so, so VS have to make their money from somewhere. If they have the wherewithal and business nous to make a few pence from a photo of a slot car or digital chip or anything else we post, it seems like a reasonable deal to me.

https://www.verticalscope.com/aboutus/tos.php?site=slotforum.com

Submissions.
You agree to grant to SLOTFORUM.COM a non exclusive, royalty free, worldwide, irrevocable, perpetual license to reproduce, distribute, transmit, sublicense, create derivative works of, publicly display, publish and perform any materials and other information you submit to any public areas, chat rooms, bulletin boards, newsgroups or forums of SLOTFORUM.COM or which you provide by email or any other means to SLOTFORUM.COM and in any media now known or hereafter developed. Further, you grant to SLOTFORUM.COM the right to use your name and or user name in connection with the submitted materials and other information as well as in connection with all advertising, marketing and promotional material related thereto, together with use on any other VerticalScope Inc. web sites. You agree that you shall have no recourse against VerticalScope Inc. for any alleged or actual infringement or misappropriation of any proprietary right in your communications to SLOTFORUM.COM.

This is my hobby so I had not bothered to check the forum Terms out fully.

In this instance the forum party can use our material as they think fit.

We creators retain copyright ownership of material posted, and can do the same.

NB

1) We currently have the ability to remove attachments.

2) The forum does not have property or model releases for the items and or people photographed. These would be required if the material was to be published in a commercial, i.e non editorial, context.

It is most unlikely that we are obligated to supply any of the above. However if this were the case, fees could be charged for the action of so doing.

 

[Drifter2]

Not necessarily:

I was not involved in porn as above, but in the photography profession a routine approach is as follows:

As copyright owner: (In the UK, re. Copyright Designs & Patents Act 1988 if unsure).

1) Take a dated screen shot of your image in the violation context.

2) Inform infringer of breach (a named individual where possible), and that your usual reproduction fee of x£ per day is applicable and will be invoiced from one week of todays communication, for that specified use (medium, context, size).

3) Keep screenshots and invoice in the usual manner. (Statements and SCCourt claims where necessary).

This is almost always sufficient to secure prompt removal of your copyrighted images from illegal use by third parties.

Two further points - not intended as legal advice.

1) You cannot invoice retrospectively.

2) It is only worth taking legal action (other than Small Claims on unpaid accounts), if you can sue for damages resulting directly from the infringement.

I offer this rough and ready guide as a retired, freelance editorial photographer of almost forty years standing.

Does this still apply if the infringer is in different country to the copyright holder?.

i.e how do you enforce your country's law on an individual in another country?

 

[slotterkeith]

Does this still apply if the infringer is in different country to the copyright holder?.
I.e how do you enforce your country's law on an individual in another country?

From a British perspective:

1) Yes. My copyright stands worldwide, and I could invoice wherever an infringer may be - probably the same in Oz.

2) With extreme difficulty - presumably through some expensive, legal process of which I have no experience.

 

[RikoRocket]

Terms and conditions clarify that the forum is subject to Canadian law.

Unless otherwise specified, the materials contained on the Web Site are presented solely for the purpose of providing information to persons primarily located in Ontario, Canada. This site is controlled and operated by VerticalScope Inc. from its offices in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. SLOTFORUM.COM makes no representation that any of the materials contained in the Web Site are appropriate or available for use in other locations or jurisdictions. Those who choose to access this site from other locations do so on their own initiative and are responsible for compliance with local laws, if and to the extent local laws are applicable.

This agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the laws of the Province of Ontario and the laws of Canada and users of the Web Site irrevocably attorn to the jurisdiction of the courts of the Province of Ontario. Any provisions of this Agreement which are or may be rendered invalid, unenforceable or illegal, shall be ineffective only to the extent of such invalidity, unenforceability or illegality, without affecting the validity, enforceability or legality of the remaining provisions of this Agreement. This Agreement constitutes the entire agreement between the parties pertaining to the subject matter hereof and supersedes all prior and contemporaneous agreements, understandings, negotiations and discussions, whether oral or written, of the parties.

 

[Dr_C]

I guess copyright is a specific form of IP protection. Other legally enforceable types of course include patents and trade marks. I was specific in my question about copyrights as it appears most relevant to sharing digital images as we do here.

Another way to protect IP is to ensure the designer/owner retains freedom to operate. Practically this involves demonstrating the idea existed in the public domain prior to someone else filing their own patent. I had (perhaps naively) assumed slotforum as a publicly available platform could be used for that purpose. However, if whole threads can go AWOL at times as we have seen recently - clearly thats a risky strategy.

Back to copyright... from US law it appears that the copyright symbol, owners name and date are not requirement more they serve as a reminder of copyright ownership. They also demonstrate the time from which copyright is expected to expire.

If slotforum sets a public end date for the start of new copyright protections (as seems to be the case with the current forum footer message) - I have no idea whether normal default rules apply or whether it is viewed as no material beyond that date is to be considered copyrighted. Or perhaps up until 2012 copyright sits with VerticalScope and after 2012 with the member who owns the submitted content. Certainly reviewing whether the date of 2012 is correct makes sense please.

Well thats my understanding on what looks a tad complicated... but still some simple and clear guidance on copyright from VerticalScope would be very helpful in due course please.

c

 

[slotterkeith]

[quote name="Dr_C" post="2413109" timestamp="1608813553"]... Back to copyright... from US law it appears that the copyright symbol, owners name and date are not requirement more they serve as a reminder of copyright ownership. They also demonstrate the time from which copyright is expected to expire...

Exactly so in the UK. Copyright is at least initially owned by the creator by default. No need to register or mark with a symbol.

If I recall correctly working photographers in the US were, and most likely still are, encouraged to register images. Not essential, but this can help prove ownership in the event of controversy.

 

[beardy56]

I would assume that if you are happy to post on any forum you are happy to have your content in the public domain and shared as such as all forums are searched by all the search engine spiders and most of your pictures and content will end up on at least one or more search engine site. If you wish to have stronger copyright control I would assume the best way is to publish your work on your own website with your full copyright terms and conditions published there and then link to your site from the article, assuming the site is none commercial and you will not make any profit from the link as that is against most forum rules including SFI.

 

[Dr_C]

And what if we post in good faith something we believe is useful to other members - e.g. an extract from a manufacturers datasheet? I usually acknowledge the source... however... when we post images are we by default implying that we as individuals have rights to publish/distribute? I for sure will be checking this in future.

c

 

[RikoRocket]

when we post images are we by default implying that we as individuals have rights to publish/distribute?

Yes DRC you are. So be really careful about borrowing photographs from the internet. Even if a manufacturers datasheet is in the public domain, most have a copyright statement so should not be copied.

 

[JasonB]

Hi everybody, long time no see. I got a message suggesting I should make a comment, so here goes...

First and most importantly, your images are yours, it's that simple. Unless you specifically enter into a contract to hand them over to somebody else, the copyright remains with you. Signing up to a forum wouldn't really count.

Vertical Scope might expect to use your images to promote the forum, or their business, but quite frankly they can't be bothered, and if they could I'm sure we'd all be happy to see them promoting the hobby. But they won't, so that's irrelevant.

The problem, as Dopamine has clearly outlined, is that other people can take your images or any other work and you will have virtually no recourse. You own the copyright, but to be honest, you have absolutely no chance of stopping them from using it.

Anyway, Merryy Christmas everybody, Happy New Year, and I hope you're all well.

 

[Slotspeed]

@ Slotspeed ........ your post seemed to suggest that I should add a copyright tag .... but not in my name ..........

Hi Greg,

I can see how you could have read it that way and why you responded in that sense!

I was addressing Dr_C's copyright concerns, or any forum member, and used his shared image as an example (I am assuming his image was shared without permission) which is why I made up a watermark example that could be superimposed onto his or anyone's photos which would probably discourage any unwanted image re-use (at least in my mind I think it would work)

But I can see that since I mentioned your earlier post that you might think I was talking directly about your work (lol, I should have been clearer)

Thanks for the appropriate response and for clearing it up with me.

Regards,

Steve.

P.S. an interesting thread. Reminds me of a friend whose work was blatantly ripped off in a commercial sense, his jingle was re-used without his permission for some TV network promos. He actually met up with the TV exec who authorised the unauthorised re-use of his jingle and suggested alternate licensing options, but the pig headed exec who obviously was unaware of copyright or publishing obligations just threatened him with a legal challenge, my friend who was quite aware of his rights having worked in songwriting and music production for decades decided to let it go as it wasn't worth the hassle and expense of legal representation. For decades his own licensing arrangements with clients had worked for him without issues, and he had saved the expense of using copyright lawyers and publishers, I guess without that representation/backup there is always a risk your work will be used without your permission.

Watermarks are obviously not always going to prevent this, I could tell another funny story about a cropped video... This time the little guy won though.

 

[Dr_C]

Thanks JasonB, Riko, Slotspeed et al above... I appreciate as I am sure others will too the above shared wisdom

c

 

[slotterkeith]

Yes DRC you are. So be really careful about borrowing photographs from the internet. Even if a manufacturers datasheet is in the public domain, most have a copyright statement so should not be copied.

Spot on.

 

[Dr_C]

Not convinced it is quite so clearcut... the UK Patent Office offers guidance on exceptions to copyrights - there are a number - but to mention three of them:

- non-commercial research and private study
- teaching
- sufficient acknowledgment

Guidance quoted from UK Patent Office Website (visited 27/12/20) and hereby acknowledged.

For further details please visit:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/exceptions-to-copyright

c

 

[Dr_C]

I had the pleasure of meeting colleagues at the UK Patent Office (Newport) a few years back - very professional and friendly team. Excellent website too.

c

 

[Dr_C]

The question of copyright has, for me, come up once again as a member of a different slotcar forum is copying photographic images of my work (shared only on sf) and he is then adding somewhat negative interpretations and comments… certainly not an act in good faith. There is no adequate acknowledgment and certainly there was no courteous seeing of permission in advance. Very poor behaviour in my opinion.

c

 

[Dr_C]

Here is one of the images for which I own the copyright… I added the copyright text here to clarify this point.

I have publicly displayed this image (without the white text) only on sf - so if it has been copied for unauthorised commercial purposes - it will have been copied from sf.

Professionally run companies should know better!

c