SlotForum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,980 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Guys,
We have received a request for an amendment to the CSCRA Saloon Car Standards.

Specifically;
Trans-Am class b - under 2 litre cars.
Reduce the minimum ground clearance from the current 1.5mm to 1.0mm.

Reason for the request;
To align the CSCRA Standards with those of the Pendle sponsored Trans-Am/Pony Wars series.

Points in favour of a change.
1. Keeps the CSCRA Standards relevant to what is currently being built and raced.
2. Makes it much easier to build these small wheeled cars with scale wheels and sufficient ground clearance.
3. Enables cars built for the Pendle series, and there are a significant number of them, to enter other events run to CSCRA Standards.
4. The change would not make any existing car built to the current CSCRA Standards illegal.

Points against a change.
1. It could make existing cars uncompetitive.

If anyone has an opinion they would like to put forward on this please do so.
Everyone's input is important.

My view;
This change seems perfectly logical to me.
It is in line with the aims of the CSCRA and keeps us in the main stream of current events.
I don't see this change affecting organisers of any current CSCRA events as I can't think of anyone, other than Pendle, who runs this class.

Additional proposal if the above is adopted.
Make the same change to the other CSCRA Car Standards for under 2 litre cars of the same historical period.
Specifically: SL3b '63-'69 cars and SL4b '70-'81 cars.
Reasons for this;
1. There are a significant number of cars in these classes that also competed in the Trans-Am.
2. The small class at Phil Insull's Wolves October Saloon event also runs to a 1mm ground clearance rule.

Please make your views known.
Cheers.
****.
 

·
John Roche
Joined
·
4,264 Posts
I'm happy to change, the timing's good as I have a Lotus Cortina in my soon to build list so it would be easier to build to the new standard


Cheers

John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,413 Posts
I'm happy with the proposed change. It may also enable the small class to compete more equally with the bigger cars when they are run together.
 

·
David Collins
Joined
·
2,467 Posts
Well, I understand why this would be convenient for some racers, but I worry a lot about the slippery slope in this. If for Trans-Ams, why not also for more modern F1 and Sports classes? Surely those cars would have been lower than the Pony cars?

None of the current CSCRA classes have clearance less than 1.5mm.

One of the strong values behind the CSCRA car standards development was to preserve scale appearance as much as reasonably possible. Once we start allowing the car standards to be driven by race organisers without the same concern for scale, then I think we will put ourselves in a very difficult position.

David

PS. I seem to remember that Chris Adams and David Farrow amongst others have succeeded in making very rapid small saloons to current CSCRA rules...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,155 Posts
Hi ****.
As with all these points, not completly straightforward!
I agree on the one hand that building these small models with (scale) small diameter wheels is much more simple with a low ground clearance. On the other hand, I do feel we need to keep the natural order of things in so much as the quicker real 1.1 big cars are reflected in our near scale models.
The low 1mm G/C proposed for the under 2 litre models will give them a step change up in performance.
We all know of the 'back in the day' giant killing acts that went on with Minis, Abarths and Alfa's all putting it across the 'Big Bangers' from time to time
...but this was not the 'norm'.
I would only be in faviour of a drop in G/C for T-Am B, SL3b and SL4b, if we redress the performance increase given to these models by either a 1mm tyre width reduction to 8mm from 9mm for small saloons, or a 1mm increase for Large saloons up from 9mm to 10mm.
This would of course put CSCRA rules slightly at odds with some other events/series but tyre width is not a huge issue to alter from one event to another...Ground clearance is.
Of the two tyre width options I propose, probably the slight decrease in small saloons is a better option. everyone with 9mm rubber on these models will easily be able to trim 1mm of existing tyres.
As most of the small saloons in reality would have been running rear tyres much closer to 8mm, than anything wider it would also be a good 'to scale' improvment.
Of couse, this throws a 'curve ball' into the debate, but we do need to fully think these things through.
Regards Bill.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
925 Posts
Last year in the Pony wars we dropped the ground clearence to 1.5mm from 2mm in the O2L class and to 1mm from 1.5mm in the U2l class due to most entrants struggling to get cars to clear this and to allow CSCRA cars to run.

This year we have now changed the rules on tyres as follows.

The O2L cars can now use 10mm tyres instead of 9mm. 2 reasons, One is to allow them a little more performance but the main reason was that most tyres come off the shelve at 9.5-10mm wide so this saves having to trim them down.
The U2L cars can now only use 8mm tyres in stead of 9mm. The reason for this is that the cars a .5mm lower so we have taken some of the tyre width away to try to balance this out aswell as trying to keep the smaller cars in check with the bigger cars.

Regards
Nic
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,980 Posts
Thanks to all of you that have taken the time to reply.

It seems that everyone is OK with the ride height reduction provided there is a corresponding reduction in tyre width to 8mm.#

As regards the CSCRA tyre width of 9mm for the O2L cars I did try to persuade everyone to accept 10mm but was seriously out voted.

I'll leave the thread open for a couple of weeks to allow any other comments to be added before I put forward a final amendment proposal.

Cheers.
****.
 

·
Ian
Joined
·
99 Posts
****, and team,
I appreciate this thread probably more than you think, there are a few people like myself who are just on the edge of CSCRA looking in, we are also in the early stages of developing the required skills to produce cars of our own. Believe me it's a minefield looking in, as a relative beginner in the scratch build scene.
It's everyone's biggest fear to turn up to an event with "one" car that has taken months to build and you have poured your heart and soul into with the risk you may fail scrutineering. So anything that helps harmonise events is great news, and will allay some of those fears.

I know I for one look up to the building skills of the CSCRA guys who have posted in this thread in awe, we are very lucky to have Chris at our club as our guide into this side of the hobby. Our club though very small has certainly got behind the spirit of CSCRA and I'm sure there will be more and more of the Gainsborough team showing their faces at the events over the next few years. Although I personally can't make Rockingham this weekend it is on the cards for the future


Regards
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,980 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Guys,
There has been no further input to this amendment proposal.
The vast majority of input that has been posted has been in favour of the change.
We will therefore make the following amendments effective immediately.

CSCRA Saloon Car classes
SL3b - 1963 to 1969 under 2litre cars
SL4b - 1970 to 1981 under 2litre cars
Trans-Am class b - 1966 to 1972 under 2litre cars

Maximum tyre width reduced from 9mm to 8mm.
Minimum Ground Clearance reduced from 1.5mm to 1.0mm.

This brings the CSCRA Standards for these small saloon cars into line with the rules for the 2014 Pendle Trans-Am series and the Wolves October Saloon event small car class thus enabling cars built for these events to run at CSCRA meetings.

We will not specify a minimum wheel and tyre diameter, but will retain the following statement;
Front and rear wheel and tyre diameter: Scale for the car being modeled.
as the range of wheel and tyre sizes used on these cars is too wide to allow a minimum size to be set that would be realistic for all cars in these classes.

I will forward the amended CSCRA Saloon Car Standards to David Collins to be uploaded to the CSCRA website.

Thank you all for your input.
Cheers.
****.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,799 Posts
Hey Guys.

This would also be compatible with our proposed rules for the Gainsbro "small sports" class.

We are currently nearing finality of those rules but, tyre width of 8mm and GC of 1mm, for under 2litre sports is most likely.

VBR Chris A.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top