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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just to unclutter the important discussion of establishing a UK D3 rules set elsewhere, I'd like to explore the possibilities of new types 'n stuff. The challenge of making acceptable British saloon cars for this class has been raised, and also the various pros and cons of expanding the available range of bodies beyond the ubiquitous Ti22. So any thoughts, shout 'em up here.

This is all meat and drink to me- I like nothing better than whittling a mould and popping it on the old Vacformer to see what happens, but I'm in danger of being squeezed out of house and home by piles of moulds, many of which have only been used once. So I need to be a little selective in what might actually be useful to racers.

Making a slammed 81mm wide Jaguar XJ does rather appeal, and would satisfy the various suggestions for rules as they stand, but the real trouble with all the Brit Saloon types is the short nose. I can't think of anything that would offer a reasonable guide lead to put them on terms with the Camaros and Mustangs without transgressing the bounds of taste. But I could be wrong. Anyone remember the slammed D-type Phil Smith ran at our early D3 races? Now THAT thing was pushing the envelope.

I'm all for a coupe class, where you can run all sorts of LeMans types, and this does actually run in the US already. Slammed P4s, 917s, Lolas- you name it, I think they look gorgeous.

In the CanAm class, which I think has always been acknowledged the 'blue riband' class, the problem (if it is a problem) has always been that the top racers find there is one particular body style that 'works' and handles better than any other, and instantly the grids are full of, as I mentioned before, Ti22s. At Tottenham I recall entire grids of M8Bs being replaced almost overnight by entire grids of Ti's.

Now a lot of racers couldn't give a toss about any of this. They want a nice roomy body they can give a quick dose of light spray, pin it on, and race the thing until it's torn to shreds.
As a not-particularly-competitive racer, the pleasure for me is seeing a variety of different cars being raced in imaginative or authentic liveries, and I 'd like to contribute to that.

I've got my whittling finger poised over a Matich, Ford G7A, Ford Open Sports, Toyota 7, aww- lotsa stuff. Is any of it worthwhile? Is it really a big issue to have MORE bodies available? The choice is pretty wide already for the numbers interested in this. There are still several '69 F1 types that could be done too, but, really, why?

At present, the cut-off date is pre-1970, that is cars raced up to December 1969. It seems OK to me. Allowing another year would certainly increase possibilities, but maybe these should remain the domain of the 'Tottenham Rules' class.

Sorry to ramble. Must get myself a social life of some kind.....
 

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Philip Insull
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Hi John,
I don't know about Tottenham Rules but I'd be interested in a G7A and Toyota 7 body if you do any. I managed to squeeze a Flat6R powered Slot-It angle winder chassis under the 1/32nd Jaguar XJ13 you kindly sent me and that goes like billy-oh even on 7mm wide tyres!
Here's a pic of the finished article with your Ecurie Ecosse Tojeiro in the foreground.

Cheers
Phil
 

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It' unfortunate that the cut off for D3 is the end of the 1969 season and not 1970 or 1971. For Tottenham rules a March 707 would be great, the first copy of Autosport I bought had a feature on this car. There is also the Lola T260 and McLaren M8D, The Alfa T33-3 was also a fine looking car. I would love a scale shell of the 1971 Porsche 917 l h (long tail) driven by Pedro Rodriguez, I believe this hit 238mph down the Mulsanne straight
I have found a site called "racing sports cars" who are trying to give details and photo's of every historic sports car, at each race, Worth looking at to jog your Memory
In F1 / Indy there is the Lotus 38. Shame we cant use the lotus 56b or 72.
The European touring cars allowed Porsche 911's that's interesting!
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I wasn't thinking of this purely as a 'wish list', just pondering whether we really NEED a lot of handling bodies that actually don't fully represent the actual cars, and end up getting painted in glorious fade painted schemes, and how much D3 and other classes reflect an interest in bodies other than those that give the best performance. What are the limits of 'slamming' bodies (cf Phil's 81mm 1" high D-type), whether UK saloons could be brought to terms with Nascars, etc.
And how it is that you can get Ti22 bodies in different lengths to suit particular driving styles- it's not just Camaros that have 'handling' wheelbases as well as widths.
But happy to take on board new ideas! Truescale, Outisight & of course Betta already provide a pretty comprehensive range.

But in particular- M8F is a practical idea, I have an old GT models 917 David Piper mould that could easily take a rear extension, but usually people like to avoid a large rear overhang as they don't take well to leaning on the barriers on the outside lane!
Also, I find myself oddly discomfitted by the presence of Indy models in the F1 class. Lotus 56s, 38s etc. Keep them darn yankees in their place, running in circles on the bricks!

Only me...
 

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Don't forget the reason for the indy lotus cars was so that colin chapman could race at Indy and beat the Americans at their own game!

Its a shame about the d3 rules regarding bodies, i feel that if they were a year later there would be a much wider range of bodies which could be created and in turn give lots more to the racers to choose from, then no one would be sick of seeing mustangs/camaros, TI-22's or lotus 49b's painted in gold leaf colours. If we were allowed to race european cars there would be alot more to choose from with regards to sportscar racing and saloon car racing too.
 

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Tony Condon
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Hi Guys
why do we have the cut off at 1969 ,I believe that D3 has been raced for some years (8?) and presumably the cut off then was 1969 ,why as time marches on do we not move the date along one year to go with it .After all it is not as if there was a sea change in slot car design in 1969
When we did retro back in the 80s we tried to set the time limit as to when cars stopped racing with hard rubber and non vac formed bodies ,but that doesn,t correlate to 1969
If you can get past that date ,a Lotus 72 would be sweet?

cheers tony
 

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The can-am championship started its decline after the Porsche 917-30 destroyed the competition 1973, personally I would like the can am rules to take in these years, but the bodies available were the beginnings of wing cars and not all are suitable. New scale appearing shells would be required,
I cant see the existing rule makers allowing these, but we could run them in a British series only. If you want to run in a international race you simply change the body to one that is legal in that series. These D3 classes are about limiting the chassis ability, so that they are similar to chassis raced in the USA in the mid 60's and fitting suitable bodies.
Mike
 

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hi howmet - a bit off topic - but reading your comments reminded me i have your own indy secret weapon sitting here - will see if i can get it off to you to work your magic with and perhaps beat them at their own game


glad to see you're still at it

cheers, Ron
 

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I have one of your Lola T 163 bodies, but when looking through Model cars April 1969 I found photo's of the T 162 and I believe your body is the T 162. this led me to google the colour of the car, what I found was interesting in that the car appeared to be designed to race with a high suspension mounted wing, these were banned and it was converted with new rear bodywork into a car with McLaren M8 F/D fences with a full width rear wing . This raced in 1969 so is a legal shell for D3, pull this one 80mm wide and it will sell, the nose looks like it was designed by a slot racer, I think this body would edge out the Ti 22 as the first choice for can-am bodies. Look for the red number 55 car.

Mike
 

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I have one of your Lola T 163 bodies, but when looking through Model cars April 1969 I found photo's of the T 162 and I believe your body is the T 162. this led me to google the colour of the car, what I found was interesting in that the car appeared to be designed to race with a high suspension mounted wing, these were banned and it was converted with new rear bodywork into a car with McLaren M8 F/D fences with a full width rear wing . This raced in 1969 so is a legal shell for D3, pull this one 80mm wide and it will sell, the nose looks like it was designed by a slot racer, I think this body would edge out the Ti 22 as the first choice for can-am bodies. Look for the red number 55 car.

Mike
 

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QUOTE It' unfortunate that the cut off for D3 is the end of the 1969 season and not 1970 or 1971.
I think I can explain the reason for this.
High, suspension mounted wings were allowed in the Can-Am up to the end of 1969 (they were banned earlier in Europe).
So until 1970 wings were not part of the cars bodywork and many cars ran without them.
The result of this is that most 1/24th scale bodies are still reasonable representations of the real car, without any aero aids.
In 1970 most cars had bodywork mounted wings or wings mounted above the rear bodywork and the mould makers tried to incorporate this into their moulds, usually with unsatisfactory results.
Once this trend had started the mould makers also realized that significant aerodynamic improvements could be made to the models by re-shaping the rear wings to make better use of the airflow over the top surface. This eventually lead to wing cars and the modern 'thingies' as raced by the BSCRA.
The simple solution for the rule makers is to avoid the problem of out of scale, aerodynamically improved, bodies by setting the cut off date before they appeared.
Personally I would also like to run later bodies, and if it is extended beyond '69 then it might as well include the whole of the Can-Am up to the end of '74, but it would mean having an approved body list to keep control of these aerodynamic improvements.
Cheers.
****.
 

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QUOTE (**** Kerr @ 16 Sep 2011, 08:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Personally I would also like to run later bodies, and if it is extended beyond '69 then it might as well include the whole of the Can-Am up to the end of '74, but it would mean having an approved body list to keep control of these aerodynamic improvements.
I'm with you 100% on this ****, there are some lovely bodies out there if they look scale.

Mike
 

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John Roche
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Personally I think that newer bodies wouldn't match the spirit of the chassis style as by 1970 everyone was using anglewindwers but would be OK for Tottenham cars.

I agree with the need for an approved body list though as there have been a few bodies with apparently iffy aero appearing.

Cheers

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Here's the makings of the 1/32 Wolverine, It's got as far as a primer coat now, but casting is still a bit of a way off...



I have both 160 and 163 Lolas, Mike; the 163 is based on the bright orange Simoniz sponsored car, the 160 is the high-tailed shell. Both are repops of classic GT Models shells, and both have been 'officially approved' by the IRRA.
 
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