[LeeH]

Catching up on my Sky+ today of BSB and NASCAR had a brain wave, why not have a race for the EAHORC Cup chase? The excitment around the race for the chase thing would be fantastic. I have 2 ways this could work. So as Deane would say let me flesh out the idea below,

Option 1
>Rounds 1 - 7 run as normal.
>After round 7 is complete the top 4 in the EAHORC Cup standings are in the chase.
>Plus then 2 wildcard picks which as in NASCAR are the others in the standings with most wins in the this being OW and PM class wins.
>The then 6 selected drivers are all put to a standard points level with extra points or credits added, say 5 extra for a win and 2 extra for a second place to keep it easy.
>For the rest of the field after round 7 they continue with there points as before and at the end of the season person finishing highest outside chase wins EAHORC shield.

Option 2
>Identical to above option just instead of 2 wildcard drivers entered for most wins it is just simply the top 6 in points who enter the chase.

Example- (Lets say points levelled to 5000 for use in this example)
If was run in previous season this is how the chase would of happened at the completion of second FLBT round,
Andy Whorton would have 5000 plus 3 OW wins (3 x 5 points = 15) and 2 OW 2nd's (2 x 2 points = 4) also 4 LMP1 wins (4 x 5 points = 20) and 1 LMP1 2nd (2 x 1 points = 2) so giving him points into the chase of 5041 points.

I just think this would really spice up the season and give everyone in the field something to fight for until the very last round. Thoughts?

 

[montoya1]

The Nascar chase has been tweaked several times over the years, and it has been somewhat lost in all the changes that they also tweaked the wins incentive, which for many was the real problem.

In EAHORC terms the guys doing the winning lead the Cup standings, so we don't have the same issue, there is nothing to fix. Closing up the top six after the have worked hard to get there over half a season goes against the meritocratic way EAHORC works, it is an artifice just as handicaps, claiming races and stuff like that are.

I'm not sure how it gives everyone in the field more to fight for. It may close up the top six artificially, it may not for all of them, depending on the math. The guy who is 7th now can't win the whole thing, but he can say he was the highest non-chase driver, otherwise known as finishing 7th.

If you want to rework the Cup points for the season just finished into your chase scenario, knock up a spreadsheet and post it here, that would be worth seeing.

 

[woodcote]

The ChaseTM is only there for the usual sponsorship / TV ratings reasons and to snag the casual viewer. Many fans feel it cheapens the series - they want the guy who does the business over the entire 36 races to win the championship.

The traditional points system did produce some amazing finishes - my highlight being Alan Kulwicki's victory in 1992 (shows my age), when he clawed back a 278 point deficit in the last six races of the season. The ChaseTM would have robbed us of that drama. On the flip side, a dominant season is also something to savour, in my opinion.

In slot cars we don't have to worry about TV ratings or sponsorship. It's unusual that we don't have at least one showdown at the last round of a 10-race Eahorc season. Mike was pretty fired up at the Heene to secure that Main Grade trophy and LMP minor. And we all have race wins to aim for - Worthing was pretty special for Clive and Paul W

 

[Gareth]

I don't think a Chase scenario would improve EAHORC either for pretty much the same reasons as Deane and Andy. For me a championship is fought over every single round until it is mathematically impossible to win it or you've won it.

I was watching V8 Ute racing yesterday which was surprisingly good. They had 4 races over the weekend and the one with the most points wins the meeting. The aspect I liked though was that they had prizes for best start of the meeting which wouldn't work in slot racing but also for hardest charger which was awarded to the guy with the most overtakes. Presumably everyone can fight for this if they have reverse grids etc.

It did make me think that it would be cool to have Hard Charger table going for EAHORC. Not a championship or anything but just a record of who has achieved the most places from their grid slot. I know Martin had that amazing meeting where he qualified poorly and went from the E final to the B or something like that. Just another table or stat to add to the mountain. Could you do that Deane?

 

[montoya1]

Nascar felt they had to solve a problem of their own making, the long season and convoluted points meant one had to grind out a championship. With EAHORC that does not apply.

I think were the chase applied to the EAHORC cup it would be less fair. I think Andy P was around 7th place due to missing a round through outside circumstances, under a chase scenario he would not of been able to get back up to 4th with an end to the season that was only bettered by Andy W. If Andy W had missed Edmo, which looked likely at one point, he would not of won the EAHORC cup under a chase scenario, which everyone would agree would of been a bonkers outcome.

For me that is the danger of all these things: The crazy outcome. Everyone accepts the BTCC with all it's artifice and Plato rattle-throwing because it is one big show, but it is not proper racing. In our hobby crash and burn, random grids, handicapping, claiming rules, wet weather calls and stuff like that are all attempts to upset the natural order, and I think they cheapen what we are trying to do.

One sees the phrase 'level playing field' mentioned a lot in our hobby. It always sets my teeth on edge, because it is a level playing field already in so much as you live and you die and in-between you pick which races to enter and have exactly the same chances as everyone else. Quite often levelling the playing field looks more like dragging the quick guys down to everyone else's level, and that's not right.

I'm not a great fan of Gareth's charger table either, at least not the way he sets it out initially. There is an HO club that awards points for finals, but that treats somebody who has a strong evening and one good final worse than somebody who has a weak qualifying and then makes up ground. I am interested in some kind of 'punching above one's weight' tabulation though, and will think about it. Andy ideas on that Gareth?

 

[Julian_Boolean]

Gareth,

If you wanted to you could go through all the race results for the last few years and work out who had been the "hardest charger" the information is there.

 

[montoya1]

Exactly, and the same goes for the Lee's chase scenario.

 

[marctownsend]

My favorite radio show calls it "the race for the chase for the cup for the thing" and that kind of sums it up for me.

Much great sense spoken by Deane and Andy, my kids watch each Grand Prix as if it is the most important race they have ever seen because they haven't been sold the championship product yet. I'm jealous. In racing we only have Le Mans and the Indy 500 left where a win can eclipse a championship like the FA Cup used to.

Championships only existed in the first place to ensure everybody turned up to each event and these artificial constructs exist to encourage folk to watch every round. Is that what we need? I go to every round I can, did anybody stay away from WHO because it was a dead rubber for them? I don't know?

But back to HO, Clive has a great saying "what problem are we trying to solve"

 

[montoya1]

Nobody stayed away, perhaps a couple would of got out of other commitments if a title had been on the line.

I think we need to hear further from the OP, there is a fair amount of rebuttal to his idea, but it's a debate worth continuing, right?

 

[marctownsend]

Oh definitely, I know how I come across sometimes but all I'm asking Lee is what is it for? Testing the foundations of the idea if you like.

I always thought the chase would be more credible if they ran 4 championships for short tracks, 1.5 mile, superspeedways(inc pocono and indy) and road courses including addding one more. Then the top 6 from each division not qulifying from another division, plus all race winners not qulifying on points, qualify for a four race play off, one on each type of track. Then I would see a point to it.

The question for me is why first then how?