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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Merely a week ago I was stupid enough to accept Superhornets (Tony/ACME) challenge to create a 1973 F1 starting grid. After some reflection - was it still possible to neglect the challenge? - I decided to do the starting grid from the Belgian GP on Zolder, May 20, 1973.

Why? It was the first ever GP I attended live, so it seems to be a good nostalgic move. And then it was an overwhelming 1-2 victory for my all times heroes Jackie Stewart and Francois Cevert from the unforgettable Elf Team Tyrrell.

After that I did some research in old books and magazines and on the web. The starting grid that day on Zolder consisted of 23 cars. Please see below:

John Player Team Lotus
#1 Lotus 72E - Emerson Fittipaldi
#2 Lotus 72E - Ronnie Peterson
Penelope Pitlane RB32

Scuderia Ferrari SpA SEFAC
#3 Ferrari 312B3 - Jacky Ickx
Pattos Place

Elf Team Tyrrell
#5 Tyrrell 006/2 - Jackie Stewart
#6 Tyrrell 006 - Francois Cevert
Pattos Place

Yardley Team McLaren
#7 McLaren M23 - Denny Hulme
#8 McLaren M23 - Peter Revson
Betta & Classic

Ceramica Pagnossin MRD
#9 Brabham BT37 - Andrea de Adamich
?

Motor Racing Developments
#10 Brabham BT42 - Carlos Reutemann
#11 Brabham BT42 - Wilson Fittipaldi
Pattos Place

Embassy Racing
#12 Shadow DN1 - Graham Hill
Betta & Classic

STP March Racing Team
#14 March 731 - Jean-Pierre Jarier
Betta & Classic

Clarke-Mordaunt-Guthrie-Durlacher
#15 March 721G - Mike Beuttler
?

UOP Shadow Racing Team
#16 Shadow DN1 - George Follmer
#17 Shadow DN1 - Jackie Oliver
Betta & Classic

Marlboro BRM
#19 BRM P160E - Clay Regazzoni
#20 BRM P160E - Jean-Pierre Beltoise
#21 BRM P160E - Niki Lauda
?

Martini Racing Team
#22 Techno PA123B - Chris Amon
?

Brooke Bond Oxo Team Surtees
#23 Surtees TS14A - Mike Hailwood
#24 Surtees TS14A - Carlos Pace
Pattos Place

Frank Williams Racing Cars
#25 ISO Marlboro IR - Howden Ganley
#26 ISO Marlboro IR - Giovanni Galli
?

As you can see, I have tried to figure out who can provide the shells for this project. 15 seems OK, and they are all ordered now at my favorite dealers. But where do I find the missing 8?

Cheers, Holger
 

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Tony Condon
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Hi Holger
Since you have seemed to blame me for your latest aberation the least i can do is help
Well for a start those BRM 160s you can obtain from an unlikely source ,inasmuch as scalextric do one
Before you turn your nose up at something as mundane as scalex ,it really is a half decent body ,(unless the ones at belgium were the wide nosed versions) and if you get the decalling right and build the chassis to the right wheelbase (rather than the short one it comes with) ,i think you,ll be well pleased with the results
Does pattos do decals for them ?

Cheers tony
I,ll have a think about the others ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Tony - you are to blame for this, no doubt!

The Scalex BRM has as you mention the wrong nose for the Zolder GP, so I have to keep looking.

Pattos seems not to offer these decals, but I know of other sources. No worries, the shells are the challenge here.

Please keep on thinking......

/Holger
 

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Peter Farrell
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Holger the Scalex P160 plus the judicious use of Plasticard, a little patience topped off with a few dabs of milliput and you have your 160E
 

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Tony Condon
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Hi Holger
Yes i did a bit of research and indeed they do have the full width nose
However it wouldn,t take too long to make a moulded full width nose for that car as it is relatively simple
annoyingly i had one of those bodies but gave it a away to an american enthusiast whose name aludes me who intended to mould some bodies ,but i,ve not heard from him since unfortunately
I,ll have to see what i can find

cheers tony
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Peter + Tony - your theory about the nose on the BRM P160E sounds very good, but please bear in mind that my limited skills are not up to that.

I wouldn´t know were to start or end?

I am even afraid of the ordered lexan bodies from Pattos and Betta & Classic, since I have never worked with that material before.

Peter - by the way, I will look with admiration on your topic concerning the 1968 Monaco starting grid. Great project!

/Holger
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
MAF - no, this is the 1974 version driven by Clay Regazzoni (#11) and Niki Lauda (#12).

/Holger
 

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Phil Kalbfell
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Holger : I would search for pics of Patto,s bodies before ordering, some are just great others are almost blobs. I have used some of his bodies to back cast resin bodies,but most still need a lot of modeling to look right.
 

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Ted beat me to it in pointing to the earlier P160E page on using a Surtees TS16 nose.
I think, Holger, that you grafted halves of two cars together when you were experimenting for the Arzani-Volpini, so you may feel able to tackle this.
You're right about the Airfix Ferrari in that it's not your Belgian GP 312B3, which was the one with the wide rectangular nose and side winglets or fins (with the British-built though Maranello-designed monocoque and known as the Thompson B3).
A heavily modified B3 used late in 1973 had shallow side radiators and a full-width front aerofoil like the Airfix model, but yes, that's more of a 1974 car, though not a pretty one.

I agree with Phil about the Pattos shells. It's a marvellous range, and some have good detail, like the V16 BRM, but others have little. He does have an extensive gallery of photos of built cars and it's worth looking in that. Search by type numbers rather than marque names until you're familiar with his abbreviations -- 006 rather than Tyrrell.
His DB3S, by the way, is the coupe.
Rob J
 

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Tony
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I think Pattos quite often relies on his decals to provide the details, not the same as a detailed body though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I agree with all of you above. Up untill today my only experience with Patoss Place lexan shells are two Ferrari 553 Squalos to represent the #2 and #6 cars from Scuderia Ferrari on Reims, July 4, 1954.

And these shells really lack details. The have to live - as mentioned - from livery and decals.

So I am skeptical concerning the ordered shells from Pattos - and the Betta & Classic ones as well.

/Holger
 

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Holger: The Pattos Tyrrell 006 has good detail and is not a blob, going by the pic of a built one on his gallery.
A disadvantage for you may be that it is modelled on the car at the beginning of the season, with the rear wing quite far forward. I think that by the time of your Belgian GP the wing was set well back, with supporting struts.
I don't know if that matters to you, but if it does you may like to consider the Polistil version, which does have the wing set back with almost horizontal struts.
It has a disadvantage too, however, in that it's over-scale. The wheelbase is 3-4mm too long. I have three of that Polistil range and have sometimes wondered exactly what scale they really are. Going by the wheelbase alone, it's about 1:30.5. Many Scalextric F1s of the time, of course, were also over-scale.
Anyway, good luck with your project. Can't help on the 721G, BT37, Tecno and Iso Williams shells. Perhaps only the balsa carvers have produced them.
Rob J
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well, the first shells have arrived and I am more skeptical then ever.

Please look at these:



From left:
March 731 (Betta & Classic)
Tyrrell 006 (Pattos Place)
Brabham BT42 (Pattos Place)

Although from two different makes the March and the Brabham looks like being in same scale, especially if you look at the rear wing, where the Tyrrell (in coparison) looks very tiny.

From Betta & Classic I also recieved UOP Shadow DN1 and McLaren M23 (both huge) and from Pattos Place Ferrari 312B3 (huge) and Surtees TS14A (tiny).

What to do? These different cars will never ever look right together on a starting grid. I suppose I will have to wait for Penelope Pitlane Lotus 72E to arrive and then let the size of that descide the "scale" of my own personal 1973 grid. My best guess - and hope - is that it will look best together with the Tyrrell and Surtees shells. But if it turns out to be as huge as the others I might go the Polistil way like Rob J is proposing.

Tony - what have you got me in to?

By the way, how do I start on such a lexan shell. With knife or scissors?

Cheers, I really need a pint now, Holger
 

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Peter Farrell
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Holger,
Have you measured the shells. That will tell you how far out of scale they are. Rather than going by eye alone.
Peter
 

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QUOTE (circuittaps @ 17 Sep 2012, 09:13) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>By the way, how do I start on such a lexan shell. With knife or scissors?
Either - which ever suits you best.
I prefer scissors. For small diameter internal curves (the slots for axle clearance etc.) I use a Dremel small grind stone - I find that much easier for that sort of job than either knife or scissors. Also a larger Dremel sanding drum is good for wheel arches on closed wheeled cars.
 

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Peter Farrell
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I would add to the previous post. Use short bladed scissors, small nail scissors for example. They are far more controllable.
Peter
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Peter - yes, and the small ones (Tyrrell + Surtees) seems to be 1/32 where the rest are more 1/28 - 1/30.

As I know Penelope Pitlane from their fifties kits, I expect the Lotus to be spot on 1/32. So this wil of course be the scale of my upcoming grid. Unfortunately I am then down to only three different teams (six cars) and must hope for new releases.....

Thanks to Peter and 300SLR for the scissors advise. Surprised to read about the use of the Dremel on lexan. Will it not vibrate too much?

/Holger
 

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Likely some of the bodies are 1/32 with just the width over 1/32 rather than 1/28 - 1/30 in all directions.

Dremel on lexan works very well if you do it right. Needs a gentle touch or you can take too much off!
 
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