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F1 - A general conversation

210648 Views 6251 Replies 93 Participants Last post by  Gripping Pneus, 
beardy56
With all the subject matter being raised in the various F1 topics on here I thought I would start a general topic for any this not related to a particular race.

I came across this a few days ago


The 1965 Dutch GP.

And it just goes to show that some things haven't really changed. This race was just about halfway through the season and Clark is already just about confirmed as champion and the gaps between the leading cars at the end? Raymond Baxter calls this a close and exciting race, wonder what he would make of current F1 races?

This was Jim Clark's 5th win out of six races, he also won the next race in Germany. The only one of the first six races he didn't win he didn't take part in, Monaco, which was won by Graham Hill in a BRM who won the next two races after Germany with Jackie Stewart and the Hill again. Honda broke the mould with their first win in the final race in Mexico with Richie Ginter.

Championship :-

1st Jim Clark 54 Points (all his 6 points scores were wins and all counted, best 6 finishes only counted)

2nd Graham Hill 40 points

3rd Jackie Stewart 33 points

4th Dan Gurney 25 points

5th John Surtees 17 points

6th Lorenzo Bandini 13 points

7th Richie Ginther 11 points

8th Mike Spence & Bruce McLaren 10 points

another seven drivers scored points and after that another 24 drives competed in at lease one of the ten races that year.

That's 40 drivers competing in total and another 11 who attempted to qualify.

The Constructors championship was ( only the 1st placed car in each team counted)

1st Team Lotus - Lotus-Climax 54 points (Jim Clark, Mike Spence and two other drivers )

2nd Owen Racing Organisation - BRM 45 points (Graham Hill & Jackie Stewart)

3rd Brabham Racing Organisation - Brabham-Climax 27 points (Jack Brabham, Dan Gurney, Denny Hulme and 1 other driver)

4th Ferrari - Ferrari 26 points (Lorenzo Bandini, John Surtess (8 races), Pedro Rodriguez (2 races) and 3 other drivers)

5th Cooper Car Comapny - Cooper_Climax 14 points (Bruce McLaren and Jochen Rindt)

6th Honda R & D Company - Honda 11 points (Ronnie Bucknum & Richie Ginther)

7th RRC Walker Racing Team - Brabham-BRM 5 points (Jo Siffert also Jo Bonnier in a Brabham - Climax)

8th Reg Parnell Racing - Lotus--BRM 2 points Richard Attwood, Innes Ireland, Mike hailwood, Chris Amon and 2 other drivers)

with 3 other teams racing and another 3 teams that did not qualify for any races.
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T
Meanwhile in Europe, Nike are in court objecting to the brand Max1, that you know who is planning to use for his forthcoming clothing and sportswear brand.
Legal word is that in terms of trademarks and confusion of the public ,they might see it as a sub brand of Nike Air Max.
I am comfortable in the knowledge that whatever he calls it, I shall not be parting with any of my coin of the realm in his general direction.
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Gripping Pneus
Ah I see - you prefer yourself in Lewis’s styles 😀
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Abarth Mike
tangerinedream said:
I am comfortable in the knowledge that whatever he calls it, I shall not be parting with any of my coin of the realm in his general direction.
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I might buy Jos 1 :unsure:
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T
I am currently sitting in my pyjama trousers and single-breasted dinner jacket. Neither is emblazoned with the word, Max, or even Macks, so I shall eat luncheon today feeling fairly safe from becoming embroiled in toxic litigation over alleged copyright infringement.

Merc might object to me tartan 'jamas, though, as they closely resemble the 300SLR's upholstery. Very posh. Can this world get any sillier?
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beardy56
Yes
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Kevan
Trisha said:
...Can this world get any sillier?
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T
I will f4rt in your general direction, I will show my private parts to your Auntie,but I will not buy one of the $500 no track view tickets for the Las Vegas grand Prix.
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T
Stefano Domenicali reportedly wants rid of free practice on the grounds that "fans don't like it."
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T
If this weekend's coverage of the 'Straalian GP incudes hype about young Pastry becoming a multiple champion, I shall send copies of The Three Bears to Alan Jones, Mark Webber and a man I know in Alice Springs who could do with a laugh.
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Kevan
Yeah hadn't thought about that actually, no doubt they'll be banging his drum

...let's hope he doesn't get mistaken for that other infamous Oscar...Pistorius
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beardy56
Trisha said:
Stefano Domenicali reportedly wants rid of free practice on the grounds that "fans don't like it."
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Sounds good to me, lets go back to open practice with your fastest lap during practice counting for the grid. It was good enough for Clark, Brabham, Hill, both G and P, and their contemporises and many drivers before them, Fangio and Hawthorn, Moss, Brooks, von Trips, Ascari. If it was good enough for them it's good enough for any modern driver 😁
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cbwho
Charles R said:
I have mixed feelings regarding cars being competitive with each other or letting the cars themselves dominate the race.

Take the SRX Racing series where the cars are setup identically and in theory the driver determines the outcome. They even reverse the starting order for the second Heat Race to make the racing more competitive in the Main Event. In this series the track themselves plays the biggest role as the drivers with the most experience on that type of track/surface typically places in the front or wins. Regardless of how they attempt to make "things" even there is typically one or two drivers that dominate the event.

Now with F1 (from what I can see) it's nearly the exact opposite. The car itself pretty much dominates the race. Is that good or bad? I guess it depends on what you consider racing to be. I tend to lean towards car development being as important as the driver. And to a large degree it just places a different group at the top (based on the car not the driver's ability).

So I see cars and drivers being of equal importance. If one or the other can dominate that's fine by me. What isn't fine is if the course itself doesn't allow opportunities to pass. If it doesn't why bother to have the race itself. Let qualifying determine the winner. As far as a lacking of competition I can recall the Turbines at Indy... was very entertaining watching it destroy the field until that $5 part broke!
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Yes the issue of machines versus drivers. But nobody likes an IROC race.

My only concern are rules against copying. When engineers peek at a wing and get an idea to change the car, should be able to do so. But F1 has a rule that prohibits that.

As for Lewis, he said he isn't confident in the car. It's hard to push a squirrelly bouncy car with lack of rear downforce. I think George simply doesn't know any better and he's probably more hungry.
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Abarth Mike
Charles R said:
I tend to lean towards car development being as important as the driver. And to a large degree it just places a different group at the top (based on the car not the driver's ability).

So I see cars and drivers being of equal importance.
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F1 was always a team or constructor's sport. Maybe the likes of Colin Chapman and Ken Tyrell started as drivers but so realized they were better and design or organizing. Christian Horner had a go at driving but... Eddy Jordan is more a businessman than driver as is Bernie. In their minds, the driver was exactly that, someone you hire to drive your car.

In days of yore, one needed to be a bit technical to broadcast or write about F1. Now with the advent of social media where the world and his dog has an opinion, pundits don't need to know anything about cars if they can waffle about team politics, driver's girl friends, the latest watches/sneakers et al. So the driver becomes more important as he/they are easier to waffle about and the pundits can turn F1 into a reality show.
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Henk
Nowadays it’s all about …

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longdog
Ironic really, but in making “The Show” the focus of F1, they have actually diminished the “The Show” and turned it into “The High Speed Advertising Procession”

Oh, and Arbarth Mike, don’t forget that Toto Wolff was a failed racing driver too.
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T
A new team based in Britain, codenamed H26, are reportedly hoping to enter Eff 1, and have already got as far as wind tunnel testing.

Heard it all before...
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T
Remember Craig Pollock of BAR? He wants to set up a "gender neutral" F1 team comprising equal numbers of men and women. How, please, could such an idea be gender neutral? Men and women are not gender neutral.
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Kevan
Pillock is spelled with an 'i' not an 'o'
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Kevan
...mind you, he's an easy target with a surname starting with a letter that two thirds of a 'B'

...then again maybe he's not a 'he' at all :unsure:
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Gripping Pneus
Trisha said:
Remember Craig Pollock of BAR? He wants to set up a "gender neutral" F1 team comprising equal numbers of men and women.
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He will soon get into hot water over that. I see a paradox looming.

Once the staff positions start filling up, there will come a point when his quota of m or f is reached. Then he will have to advertise "no females need apply" or "no males need apply", or be accused of being a hypocrite. Then the fun starts.

A good way to stay at the back of the grid is to reject the best job candidate 50% of the time because it is the wrong gender.
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