SlotForum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,883 Posts
I was half watching the Spanish GP today, maybe less than half watching as it doesn't grab me the way it used to. But I was more or less listening to the commentary and picking up on something very common -

"Overtaking is almost impossible"

It rang digital bells, the familiar chimes of 'more cars than lanes', and thoughts of how adopting something that has sadly turned Formula 1 into a boring spectre of what it used to be could ever be considered any kind of 'improvement' to the simple fun of slot racing.

Concerning F1, apart from the anachronism of Monaco which is totally unsuitable for F1 racing, although the glamour aspect is unbeatable, the tracks are actually big enough for the cars.
The cars aren't too big for the tracks.
So what's the problem?

It seems that air flow control has become so super-sophisticated that the cars just cannot run in close proximity to one another. They trip up over nasty little eddies. (Good job Irvine is out of it now or he might sue!) There is a simple answer to this, I guess. But, whatever the reasons, the difficulty of overtaking seems to be the root cause for dissatisfaction with F1 and, if it is to maintain its popularity, overtaking is going to have to be facilitated as a priority. It might involve smaller engines to reduce speeds or limitations on aero devices or a myriad other possibilities , each progressively dafter. The point to be observed here is that to the overtaking restrictions that are automatically imposed by digital slots comprising more cars than lanes is going to be every bit as frustrating as in full size = a LOT less fun, except for a few truly dedicated enthusiasts who WILL enjoy this. I might very well enjoy it myself but I don't believe I am in a majority.

The other common proposal for 'improving' slot racing is the digital facility to impose fuel consumption/performance limitations and 'refuelling stops'.

In full size F1, I am not alone in thinking that there is little more annoying than seeing an obvious winner lose a race because of something totally unrelated to driving skill or car performance, such as a refuelling problem or a faulty wheel change. Yet people advocate these potential annoyances as an advantage presented by digital control. Seems like the very opposite to me - just more things to get annoyed and frustrated with instead of simply having fun racing.

Well, there you are, something to think and argue about!
I could have posted this on the Digital Board but it's also F1 related and gawdnose where it might divert in what will probably be a rough passage through your widely varying mind-sets and snappy retorts! So here it is in the PIT LANE, where so many races have been won and lost, rather than on the damn track where the winning and losing should really happen!
 

·
Beppe Giannini
Joined
·
1,696 Posts
Hi Tropi,

you need not worry - just look at the BLST videoclips
Now, I have reservations on the number of LCs needed for that, but I'm confident that a reasonably similar effect will be achieved in real life with say Scalextric Digital and a judiciously designed layout - and quite sure this will be the case for my own track

Rather, let me state once again that the real issue is collisions - it's not by chance that both David and myself not only foresee anti-collision interlocks on lane change as a matter of course, but actually use that for the overtaking logic
David's system is also the only one that provides a measure of anti-shunting protection on a conventional slot track

Ciao
Beppe
 

·
Russell Sheldon
Joined
·
2,855 Posts
Tropi, I realise that this is not the point of your post, but I feel that the TV directors are largely to blame for what appear to be processional Grand Prix races. A good example was the Bahrain GP; Schumi and Rubino simply romped away into the distance, yet it was one of the most exciting races to watch on TV, only because the director was picking up the close dices and passing manoeuvres all the way down the field.

Equally, yesterday's Spanish GP witnessed a lot of close racing, but the TV coverage focused on Schumi and, not surprisingly, Alonso, making it appear as if it was a very boring race. I'm sure that McLaren aren't complaining though, I bet they would rather not we see Coulthard and Raikkonen struggling to keep up with the likes of Sato, Fisichella and Massa..... and the Toyota board must surely be reconsidering their involvement in F1.

The real problem is of course Michael Schumacher. He is on a completely different plane to everyone else. Not one of the current crop of GP drivers is even close to him in terms of ability. Yesterday he celebrated the 200th race of his career in style, winning his 75th Grand Prix and equalling the record for the best ever start to a Formula One season, cruising to his fifth successive victory from five races. I don't recall too many Brits complaining about Grand Prix racing being boring when Nigel Mansell set the record!

Personally, I believe that "digital" slot racing will bring both greater realism and require more skill from the driver and be more enjoyable for both novice and expert alike.

"Concerning F1, apart from the anachronism of Monaco which is totally unsuitable for F1 racing, although the glamour aspect is unbeatable"

I don't know... Barcelona was quite glamorous.....




.... perhaps this was the reason for Button's lapse in concentration during qualifying!

With kind regards

Russell
 

·
DT
Joined
·
5,195 Posts
There is something about the expressions of those ladies...


I'm sure too that digital will bring new levels of play to the slot racing world. There are so many systems out there each with a feature or two that is good. Sooner or later we'll end up with a really good system to use.

I don't think that the F1 solution is an easy one.

Think of pole vaulting - there is a theoretical limit to how high a man can jump, based on the conditions set down in the rules. Will the sport ever die-off. I think not as it ends up being a matter of millimetres instead of centimetres between contestants.

Hi-tech cars, electronics and track have enabled teams and drivers to become very similar - making it very difficult for one car to shoot past another. But the difference between them are so slight. Unfortunately to get the edge these days, you have to pay big bucks for smarter telemetry and programmable cars. It's the rich teams that are out in the front the poorer ones behind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,509 Posts
QUOTE (Tropi @ 9 May 2004, 19:32)In full size F1, I am not alone in thinking that there is little more annoying than seeing an obvious winner lose a race because of something totally unrelated to driving skill or car performance, like a refuelling problem or a faulty wheel change.
It's one of those things really that just show that excellent performance in a sport (any sport) is really down to doing everything right including the little things. In cricket a moment's concentration lapse is often the difference between a batting collapse and one man staying in and getting a century. It's in the sport and to succeed it must be done as well as possible so I regard speed of pit stops and all the rest as important to a driver as his skill behind the wheel (unfortunately perhaps more so in this day and age).

Shane Lynch's mishap in last years final British GT race was something totally unrelated to him or the car but that unfortunately is racing.

Coop
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,883 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Valid points, and very well made!
QUOTE It's in the sport . . .
But I'm suggesting that it doesn't HAVE to be, especially not in slot racing.

QUOTE Shane Lynch's mishap in last years final British GT race was something totally unrelated to him or the car but that unfortunately is racing.
Then, technically, it wasn't actually racing and again, it doesn't HAVE to be so for slot racing.

I simply question whether adding more frustrations to slot racing can actually increase its popularity. Except for a dedicated few, I have considerable doubts.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
106 Posts
Hi Guys,

Read the topic about adding a pitstop to slotracing to make it more interesting...
I have done something similar on my new routed track, see my pitlane

It is still far from finished, but once the interface with the computerprogram(that controls your virtual fueltank and will indicate when it is time to come in before your fuel is out/electricity cut to your track) is fully functional, I think & hope it'll add a whole new dimension to slotracing !

Keep checking the link and you'll see it evolve from week to week...

Cheers,

Yves
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
QUOTE (Xlot @ 9 May 2004, 20:20)Hi Tropi,

you need not worry - just look at the BLST videoclips
[...]
Yes i think that you should have a look at the blst system :
www.miniend.fr.st
(this is my site, but David, BLST's creator is there : you'll find a description in the digital section, with at the end his original site.

you'll find too 3 videos in the "telechargement" section.

Elicend
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
QUOTE To make it more clear for our non-French speakers

Perfect


Elicend
 

·
Russell Sheldon
Joined
·
2,855 Posts
Wow! Magnificent, Yves and Elicend!

Yves, please keep us apraised of progress! Fantastic!

Kind regards

Russell
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
Please tell Woooohhh to BLST Too : He is the creator





But we are all agree i think to say that it is beautifull to watch


Elicend
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,883 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
QUOTE if someone would make the aerofoils on the f1s actually work(slot)
If someone could make an atmosphere about 32 times denser than air, they probably would!
Underwater perhaps?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
420 Posts
QUOTE (Tropi @ 18 May 2004, 18:23)If someone could make an atmosphere about 32 times denser than air, they probably would!
Underwater perhaps?


there's a thought
but the water would presumably be 'de-ionized'. - oh and the cars would also have to go significantly slower to match the 1/32 scale...
and much, much slower in the curves to have realistic speed in the curves as well... come to think of it - definitively no need for magnets no more
oh and by then - who needs the aerofoils to work at those resulting speeds anyway..

//peter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,883 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It's a little too early in my morning for rational thinking (some say it's ALWAYS too early in the Tropi morning!), but could be that the density needs to be
32 x 32 x 32 times that of air.
ie 32,768 times

I know the density (Specific Gravity) of water is 1, but the density of air eludes me . . .
 

·
Beppe Giannini
Joined
·
1,696 Posts
It's even earlier in my morning, but off the top of my head 1.293 kg/m3

The main consideration when scaling aerodynamics is the Reynolds number, where you've also got the foil chord (but whether it's a multiplier or a dividend, don't ask me now !) - I got into this not when designing real cars (it was too early), but C class catamarans - anybody in the UK remember Reg White, Lady Helmsman and the Little America's Cup?

Beppe
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top