Goodbye, DTM

1858 Views 38 Replies 14 Participants Last post by Trisha, 5 mo ago

driver#8

Discussion Starter · 6 mo ago

Gerhard Berger has been forced to close down ITR, promoter of the DTM, ending a struggle that's gone on for years as a result of multiple factors. In its pomp during the early-mid 1990s the DTM worked because it offered big, powerful and technically-advanced cars of the kind that Germans like to see (as opposed to 2-litre Supertouring 'shopping cars').

The manufacturers gave tickets away like confetti and with packed grandstands, big names and good TV coverage all went well.

Too well. DTM decided that it had outgrown its domestic roots and branched out overseas, which didn't really work and which incurred the wrath of the then-vice-president of promotional affairs at the FIA, one B.C. Ecclestone. Bernie did what he always did and took the two biggest threats to revenue for F1, namely the BPR GTs and the DTM, and forced them into one series, FIA GT. Then he killed it.

DTM was revived after the EU anti-trust people booted Bernie out of the FIA: it was cheaper, simpler but essentially unchanged with 2-door coupes filling the grid. The formula worked well enough to encourage more investment from the manufacturers and a more advanced concept with their bread-and-butter 4-door saloons being turned into fairly hairy beasts. Then the world economy blew up.

A final throw of the dice came with effectively a one-make series where all the structural and mechanical components came from a central supplier, shared with the Japanese GT series, with plans to introduce the formula in North America and to create a truly global platform. But the fans didn't like touring cars without any DNA from the showroom, the racing was dull and predictable, North America couldn't care less about the idea and Mutti Merkel was spending billions to incentivise the conversion of her automotive industry to electric. So that died and it became just one GT3 series among many.

An all-electric prototype claimed to have 1200hp potential was run this year but EVs are a busted flush, the manufacturers don't see any value in promoting them through motorsport and privateers can't afford to use them so Berger's closing up the shop. It's been in such a sorry state for so long that there doesn't feel like we have much to be sad about, it's probably a kindness.

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driver#8

Discussion Starter · #21 · 6 mo ago

No, not the engine. Officially. Although the engines were guarded closely, photography of the engines was verboten and when a Ferrari tech brought the acoustic equipment that most F1 teams to analyse each other's exhaust notes he found the DTM manufacturers to be 'identical'.

There's no great shame in being a spec series these days. NASCAR has effectively been running spec cars since 2007, arguably spec engines since before then. Indycar, Supercars Australia, the WRC, electric series... even the BTCC are all at it in terms of common parts and engines. Not to mention junior racing classes and so on.

Even F1 is likely to go to a single standardised tub in 2026. They tried to get that through for the current generation but it was a bridge too far.

Back in 2009, the FIA proposed a single 1600cc internal combustion 'World Engine' for all categories of professional motorsport, ranging from bog standard in Formula 4/entry-level sports cars and touring cars all the way up to turbo hybrids in F1, WRC and Le Mans. Everyone thought it was madness and of course Ferrari wouldn't hear of it, but the aim was to encourage manufacturers to invest in the recyclables and renewables rather than waste money on IC.

Ultimately I think that's the way it is going to go for whichever series remain in the next 10 years.

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Wankel Ickx

· #22 · 6 mo ago (Edited)

driver#8 said:
There's no great shame in being a spec series these days

Yeah, no. There is. It's just dumbing down. If you have a single specification for all bar aero then it's really not an Audi, BMW, Toyota or whatever car that wins; it's just a silhouette.

For me, real motor-racing is about teams designing and building individual machines to set specifications. In this context, most modern racing makes me kinda sad. 😔

Edited because I made no sense.

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driver#8

Discussion Starter · #23 · 6 mo ago

Wankel Ickx said:
Yeah, no. There is. It's just dumbing down…

For me, real motor-racing is about teams designing and building individual machines to set specifications. In this context, most modern racing makes me kinda sad. 😔

100% agree.

The manufacturers are happy because they don’t have the overheads of a proper competition department, bespoke engineering or developing parts. Promoters are happy because they get to sell the supply deals to the highest bidder. Suppliers are happy because they get to charge what they want - and even so, it still looks cheap to manufacturers when compared with a bespoke programme.

All the more reason to enjoy WEC. Or Le Mans, anyway.

kalgani

· #24 · 6 mo ago

The problem is that nobody wants to loose, especially if you are a company.
Liked the idea from the Nissan GT-R LM some year ago at LeMans.
But the performance was underwhelming, Audi, Porsche and Toyota destroyed them.

And I think this is fact why today WECs top class is a BoP class... :/

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StuBeeDoo

· #25 · 6 mo ago

Wankel Ickx said:
If you have a single specification for all bar aero then it's really not an Audi, BMW, Toyota or whatever car's silhouette that wins.

...... real motor-racing is about teams designing and building individual machines to set specifications.

Preeeeeeecisely.

Wankel Ickx

· #26 · 6 mo ago

kalgani said:
The problem is that nobody wants to loose, especially if you are a company.

In this day and age, nobody is allowed to lose.

FFS.

Now, me? Well, I remember when it was all fields around here and everything was so much better. Why, a bag of crisps only cost 5p! 🤷‍♂️

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Grumpy Gaz

· #27 · 6 mo ago

I saw DTM at Donnington ( or was it ITC) during the 1990's

great racing with powerfull, exotic cars. 🏁🇩🇪

driver#8

Discussion Starter · #28 · 6 mo ago

kalgani said:
Liked the idea from the Nissan GT-R LM some year ago at LeMans.
But the performance was underwhelming, Audi, Porsche and Toyota destroyed them.

And I think this is fact why today WECs top class is a BoP class... :/

BoP existed then. But Nissan came up with a far simpler idea than building a car to win. They built cars - and drivers - to make enough headlines that winning wasn’t a requirement.

If you take a kid from racing Gran Turismo on their sofa and put them on the grid, if you fund a racing version of Delboy’s van to show more fuel efficiency, if you promise to complete a lap of Le Mans under electric power and if you say you are getting 1000 bhp from a front-engined prototype then your work is done. You own the pre-race coverage and most people won’t bother to check where you finished.

It was cynical but successful - all of the media value from Le Mans went to Nissan but the GTR was a step too far. As I understand it, a meeting was held where Nissan’s motorsport chief was told to compete or go home, because all the other manufacturers were throwing money at trying to win but the only people getting attention were Nissan.

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tangerinedream

· #29 · 6 mo ago

If you design construct and engineer a good car, you only get BOPped, removing tyre choices achieved the same thing, it's called progress, but I'll still look forward to my six days at the Sarthe next year.

CarreraNewbie

· #30 · 6 mo ago

Wicker Bill said:
I enjoyed watching DTM races here on American TV. Then the coverage became race recaps with 5 minutes of Verena Wriedt, 5 minutes of racing action, and 20 minutes of commercials.
I have a large collection of 1/32 Carrera DTM cars. Are they now passé or collectors’ items?

I have a FULL stable of those 1/32 DTM Carrera cars. We just love racing them.

Based on the 2022 season, there isn't much to miss. However, 2021 was a great year. I will certainly miss that racing action.

Kevan

· #31 · 6 mo ago

DTM has been a GT3 race series the last two years.

dvd3500

· #32 · 6 mo ago

Well the first leak to the press is that tickets for the ADAC GT Masters/DTM Tango will go up from on average 55-60€ for the whole weekend to 135-200€ for the whole weekend.

I was gifted tickets to a DTM race back in 2017. I was only allowed in set of stands and to the public areas you could get to without even a ticket.
By chance I bumped into a guy with a paddock pass that he gave me. When I got inside the place was packed with sponsors.

By contrast I have gone to ADAC GT Masters races since 2015 (this year was the first time I missed it). It never cost me more than 55€ for the weekend. I could sit anywhere, go anywhere. There was even an autograph round and an inside tour of the paddock and meeting one team including the drivers.

If the rumors are true then 2021 was the last time I have gone to any form of GT3 race...

tangerinedream

· #33 · 6 mo ago

That's a big increase,good job I'm not planning on going,seem to remember it was a great weekend deal when I last went, Brands ,2018. pit walks autograph card sessions.

dvd3500

· #34 · 6 mo ago

It reminded me of when I grew in the 8's around Michigan International Speedway. I have loads of autographs. You could talk to the people etc. Just getting the "vibes"....

Simon

· #35 · 6 mo ago

The next edition of the wonderful AutomobilSport Magazine focuses on the DTM season of 1992, would be worth seeking out when it is released Nick

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tangerinedream

· #36 · 6 mo ago

First tripped over this fabulous mag in the ACO museum shop at LM , that was #5, been having it ever since, I think issue 16 is well worth finding as well, that focussed on the Alfa 155s.
The great thing about AS is they have access to many photos not published in UK magazines, the paper and reproduction quality is also second to none, highly recommend.

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Simon

· #37 · 6 mo ago

I’m only missing the wtcc 1987 issue, rare as rocking horse poop!

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tangerinedream

· #38 · 6 mo ago

Yup that one's rather good as well, some great details of the cheating, er I mean flexible interpretation of the rules.
I've loved all the extra info this magazine has given on the likes of Shadow,ATS Matras, Mirages etc, marques that get little coverage compared to Porsche and Ferrari.
I get my issue through the village newsagent, I've also seen the mag available in WHS in Trafford centre and Lichfield.

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Trisha

· #39 · 5 mo ago

Just found an old entrance ticket to a DTM meeting nearly 30 years ago. if nothing else it illustrates the total indifference of time.

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