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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi

as i said, i need some help with a electrical project.

It is a Turbo!
i think that we can study two version, one in the car (1/24... more place) for DAVIC or other digital track were 12v is permanant and you can revolt in the car every time, and a second one, which can't be in the car on classic track, and which can be between the handler and the power suply (you connect the turbo to the supply, and you connect the handler on the turbo).

that is for the versions.

then, for the technical protocol, the idea is that when you don't drive with 12v, you could stock the delta in condensator, and when you drive 12v, you can devolt your condensator : you should have by this way more than 12v for a short time : more power... like a turbo !
i think this could be done with a "ampli op" in french (amplificateur operationnel... i always think that it is a 6 foot beast) and a comparator : while in and out are diff, we stock, and when it's = or superior, we destock...

what are you thinking about that? i'll be very pround to make this for a a resin Renault Super 5 GT Turbo (i love it, and i've got a real one) motorised by the front wheels like the real : it's not for the race, but more for the fun, and the realistic part of the scratch


thanks for you help

elicend
 

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Julius Wilkko
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Hi elicend !

Let me get this clear. In analogue system "turbo" is connected between the controller and track. Turbo doubles the voltage and charges capacitors with this voltage. You can set the voltage level of the controller that activates "turbo" , will it activate 1/2 trigger or 3/4 trigger etc.... Active "turbo" discharges capacitors to the track thus giving you power boost for a short period of time. After activation turbo cirquitry needs time to re-charge.

In digital systems such as Davic, the best way to implement "turbo" effect is to make it with software.


In my opinion in-car turbo cirquitry is not possible becouse it requires big capacitors that increase the weight and take a lot of space.


I´ve heard about similar system. At one club there was a guy driving from wheelchair. Becouse of wheelchair his controller cables were longer that other drivers cables. To compensate voltage loss in this extra cable length he constructed voltage doubler to his controller. Needless to say he end up winning most of the races with this electronic gadget and it was very soon banned.


Did I get your idea right?

Julius
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
you are right


i didn'd expected to double the voltage, about 3 or 4v (12v go to 15v) seems very good...

for the DAVIC, or other, and the "in car power boost", i know that it will take place and weight, but what can we accept for the fun
then... a software solution... i was thinking at a parapal capacitor, or one behind the motor, which is not on the ship so it can revolt every time, then, when the power in the track and the motor are the same, it devolt...

you seems to say that it is possible to check the time when we devolt on a classic track?

in the big line, it is what i'm looking for

elicend
 

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Julius Wilkko
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Voltage doubler is just a figure of speach, in practice you would get few extra volts. Hmmm... rainy weather here, kayaking out of the question... might as well investigate this.... .... "turbo". I´m sure someone has built similar circuitry already, please step forward.


Julius
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
thanks!!

here it's raining too in france, i'm performing the rear braking lights


elicend
 

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yes quite a few members of porsche challenge competitors have a second black box that contains a capacitor which boosts voltage, some controllers boost on full power some boost all the way thru the range.

Mine boosts on full throttle, it works for me.

Inte
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
could we have picture? and electrical draw?

thanks! i'm fed up with people in my office : i went and ask them for some help, they continually tell me "it will never works" or "it's impossible!"!!

if i was listening to them.... braking light should be a dream, and with this forum's help, it works and cost about 2€/car!!!
 

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Julius Wilkko
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Hi ! Inte, elicend

Tried some traditional ways for constructing voltage booster but found them unsatisfactory. This has to be modern switch mode power supply. Voltage booster might look something like this:



It´s really easy nowadays design electronics. Take the scematics above for example. All you need to do is to go to National´s website and their web-tools will design the switcher for you. Switcher is built by using National Semiconductors LM2585. I´ll get the parts next week and see how it goes. Hope that I don´t have to discover that in the end all electronic components work with smoke. If you take the smoke away the component ceases functioning.


If the design is succesful it´s possible to build either cap-charger turbo that is momentary - or lasting turbo that stays on while trigger is at full throttle. Though I think this illegal device in races.


Julius

PS.
I too would like to hear from these black boxes Inte is talking about. Anyone out there with some drawings?
 

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Julius Wilkko
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Inte, pictures really appreciated. Good close-up of your black box contents please.


Julius
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
woooo

thanks for your work


i know that it is illegale for race, but for the fun, it is indispensable! lol

 

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Julius Wilkko
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Hi everyone!

One electronic turbo finished! And this is POWER! Posting pics today, and hopefully tomorrow complete schematics of this device. This is a voltage booster that steps up 9-13V to about 19V. You may be able to get 1A current. Booster activation treshold can be set with a trimmer. Tested with both magnet- and non-magnet-cars. When you push the trigger fully your car says wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee............ and accelerates to warp speed. Unfortunately due to electronics setup there are no brakes at the first prototype, I´ll add 'em later. Me no like to use warp-speed without brakes. This "Turbo" is not ment to be some sort of cheating device and some of you surely hate me for constructing it - but hey, I just wanted to experiment whether it could be done. Blame elicend, it was his idea.
Anyway, many of us can learn thing or two about electronics.


PIC1 Turbo setup.



PIC2 Electronics closeup top, National Semiconductor simple switcher



PIC3 Electronics side view, maybe I could have done with less caps.



PIC4 Trigger fully pressed, Turbo activated, competition left behind (until the next turn)



Hope this will be useful to someone, full schematics coming up....... soon.

Regards

Julius
 

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HI JULIUS
the last picture of yours
it's glowing red mate
watch out!
last time i saw something like that happen in a lab the incredible hulk was born
mild mannered Julius scientist by day demon slot racer by night
when you the have the plans email them to me oh great one,
DR STICKY might use them for evil
 

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Julius Wilkko
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Hi DR STICKY,

Me trying to be GOOD, but slotracing has done something to me..... alteration cannot be un-done anymore......welcome to the DARK SIDE of slotracing.

Will be posting schematics here soon when I've got some time, me has to work... get some money .... buy slotcars.

Julius
 

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Julius Wilkko
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Hi!

Circuit diagram is ready. Unfortunately this device requires at least average skills of electronics. It may take some time and effort to acquire switcher IC LM2585 and inductor 22uH. All in all, if you are going to build this device - use this device for GOOD not EVIL.


This kind of booster can be very useful if you have unregulated power supply. Power output can be set to 12V and switcher keeps this output as steady 12V no matter what! And does not generate heat nearly as much as linear supplies do. Must say that this booster circuit is very powerful, took 12V/2Amps at best, thats approximately 19V/1A for the car. Braking circuit added to the schematics. If you want to improve scematics I recommend replacing relays with MOSFETs. Note that this device requires good power source in order to provide good turbo punch. I used 12V/3A Velleman adjustable lab-power. I could adjust the electronics so that it can manage with less amps. Then it would charge the turbo on turns when trigger is not in max power, when exitting turn trigger fully pressed, it could discharge and give turbo punch.

Finished device, note layout of switcher components! You cannot assemble this on vero-board or wire it to black box. Good PCB layout is essential! Keep wires short, introduce good ground plane.



And here it is, circuit diagram of the "Turbo":



OPAMP can be replaced with just about any dual OPAMP. Schottky diode MBRS340T3 can be replaced with any power-schottky diode. Preferably 3A diode, Vth 0.55V. It´s imperative to have 3 x 33uF tantal caps parallel at input. This lowers cap ESR.
....... ... Everyone well asleep by now? .... I'll just stop explaining this technical Jargon.

He builds who dares!


Julius
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
lord, i have to say you thanks a lot!

yes i was the bad one who think about this system!! but, not in the racing way! i'm a Renault 5 GT Turbo Fan : it's a small french car whith is powered by a 1400cc with a Garett T2 : 120 horse power, 860 kg : i'got one at the real scale, in its perfect standing from the plant (1989... 15year's old... not a classic car but it's becoming one!) and it is very fabulous to drive : when the turbo goes, you seems to be in a plane and then... 0 to 100 km/h in less than 8 second, and a very very very big asss kickduring the second and third gear... and with the same car, you can drive normally as mister everyone, in a "very small car"!

my topics about this car in the car section (with pictures)

that was in order to find the same feeling with scratch i'm expect to build i asked about this electrical turbo ! We are all agree that we can race with this or maybe, if every one have it!

smalls questions :
- i'm going to look for component, can i'll give you my list : you should correct it

- is it compatible with braking lights (which are lovables)?
- i've got one more electronical idea
(i'm wrong, it's not mine, but the fly one : if we put the diode in the other way in the braking lights, and we put two white led : they won't lit of during the braking time?

i downloaded demo versions of winscheme and wintypon this afternoon : by this way i hope i'll be able to maque a small CI as yours!

arf... one more idea
, in parallal with the led here, we can put a sound record which do the same "Pchouuuuu" that a turbo does when it pushs !!!

really big thanks!!! i've a lot of work now
 

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Julius Wilkko
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Hi elicend,

Thanks for your kind words. I will be posting complete parts list including suggested alternative parts later.

Your questions:
- Ok, I'll check your list but remember these things:
* IC must be LM2585T-ADJ by National Semiconductor
* Capacitor voltage rating at least 16V at input, 25V at output
* Inductor is power supply inductor 22uH EPCOS B82476A1223M, or compatible.
* OPAMP can be any single supply dual opamp
- It is compatible with braking lights
- Are you referring to permanent headlights that stay on? If you are, thats an easy one.
- I haven't tested sound, I guess motor whizzzzes so loudly that it's no use having sound.

Will get back to you soon with parts list with Farnell component codes.

Julius
 

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Julius Wilkko
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PS.

Yes, I know the Renault 5GT - had one in 1:24.


Julius
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
hi lordjw

i was looking to you electronical draw this afternoon (at work office.... sorry boss!) and i have to say that it is very hard for me

i don't understand a lot of this... except that it works (the led is lit) !

no in fact i see some things i understand but not all


and one special thing : i think on the picture that you come from the power supply with 2 wires, and goes to the handler with 3 wires... i'm wrong? is it possible to comes from the power supply with the 3 wires?

(i post you a PM)

For the sounds, i was joking


for the permanent headlights, yes it is this one


thanks for you contriution ! you are the best electronicman
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
QUOTE (lordjw @ 8 Jul 2004, 03:53)PS.

Yes, I know the Renault 5GT - had one in 1:24.


Julius
oups i forget to answer this line !

you know the GTT ?? so great car! what a pitty that it has a bad reputation (in france... i don't know in other countryes) because of it's bad utilisation "dans nos citésé (in dnow town)

you say that you have one 1/24 GT -> that is very surprising!!! could you send me a picture, i don't know any scaled GT except the A2M and the minichamp?

i hope you're right !

elicend
 
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