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Allan Wakefield
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Anyone tried these yet?



QUOTE Wheel bearing set - Suitable for all Scalextric cars

I will be starting a new section within 'Resources', it will comprise of each manufacturers current or newest Catalogue for you to peruse online in comfort.

The first two will be the New German Scalextric Catalogue and the New Ninco one.
 

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Hmmm, interesting move by the Margate boys, especially when you think of Moped's challenge to them to rise to the perceived Slot It threat in another thread.

I thought the jury came back with a big thumbs down when Ninco introduced theirs?

Thinking anatomically, maybe it wasn't a big thumbs down, maybe it was more of a shrug of the shoulders: as there was no big improvement in performance.

Interesting move all the same.
 

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Heh! Heh! Heh!

More to come I sense.

To Spain and Italy. Watch out the Brits are on the warpath.

Roll on the big 2004 announcement in December from Scalextric.

It may not quite be what some of us may be expecting!


Moped
 

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Al Schwartz
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Looks like a digital buggy whip to me - typically ball bearings have an inner race that is a press fit on the shaft - how does one square this with the standard motor shaft guided centering shown - and - what value the precision of a ball bearing when one is still dealing with junk gears, snap-in axle and motor mounts and, in all probability, hard pasta axles and eccentric wheels?

EM
 

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Allan Wakefield
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The Ninco ones were too sloppy a fit, negating ANY chance of performance improvement with use.

It is an interesting accessory development from Scalextric but I agree with EM and find it of little use until the overall standard of running gear is improved to match.

However as it IS sold as an aftermarket item it might sit well with upgraded parts, depending on the bearings inside diameter.

One for Adrian Norman maybe please?

ACTUALLY....

I just noticed that the part number for these wheel bearings are NOT using the usual Scalextric numbering system. The part number is 11085.
This suggests my initial post was premature or ill informed and that it is simply an accessory offered by 'Carson model sport' and nothing to do with Scalextric. They also offer tuning oil and switch lubricant in the same part numbering style..

Who are Carson? well looks like they produce the magazine and therefore are the main German Importer for Scalextric / Hornby ?

 

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Carson is the german distributor for Scalextric - and mainly involved in the distribution of RC-cars and all the Tamyia RC-stuff. The parts you've mentioned are parts out of the standard Carson-assortement - therefore the part-numbers are different. And as Carson is focussing on RC-stuff mainly, Scalextric is not very well known in Germany - and hard to get
... And never ask for spares...
 

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Carson make RC spares do they not?

oh and I know what the scalex announcement will be!

"we are going to stop producing magnut missiles and actually build some proper cars with drill blanks good motors and stop aiming our magnut missiles at kids literally!"



Inte.
 

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Two questions:

Who rattled Inte's cage, and how are your sense, Moped?

Methinks Swiss tucked us all up like kippers with this one.
 

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I really admire improved engineering integrity, but . . .
First, it absolutely necessary that the axles fit the inner ring perfectly for any performance improvement to be attainable or realized.
Second, average homeset motors are so weedy that the extra friction and weight of the balls and bearing rings can actually slow them down.
In that situation, the only potential advantage from ball or rotary bearings is improved life of the axle itelf. This is unlikely to be of any significance, given that plastic bearings are a cinch to change and also cost next to nothing. Unless the crappy and usually non-replaceable motor brush system is upgraded, together with better motor shaft bushings, plus high quality gears, don't expect an iota of performance gain! Nice to do, just for the personal kudos, but of no practical value whatsoever without all the other much more important improvements.
imho, naturally.
 

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QUOTE Who rattled Inte's cage

The dentist for wasting 2 hours of my day yesterday when I could have been racing!!!!!


and my sister for hogging the good computer so I have to suffer with a P2 on dial up


Rob.
 

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Thinking about the roller bearings above it has to help make cars go quicker. It cannot possibly make the cars go slower.

Think of the bronzed bushes on a SPORT Scaley car. This is the same in principle but it is a roller bearing. There will always be friction between the axle and the bronze bearing which is eased with lubrication. I believe the fit of the axle in this bearing will be very similar to a standard lubricated bronzed bush.

This friction will be greater in corners becuase of the tipping effect of the car and thus the extra friction that the axle imparts on the bush bearing on one side.

Surely if this bush bearing rolls then the friction will be less, the heat will be less, and the car will corner just that little bit quicker as more motor power is getting through to the back wheels.

I don't see how anybody can say this is not going to help?



Moped
 

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QUOTE Think of the bronzed bushes on a SPORT Scaley car. This is the same in principle but it is a roller bearing.
Try as I might, I can't follow the reasoning here.
You are saying that Sport bushings are really roller bearings?
This is a very interesting theory! :
 

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The logic is that this is the same as the rear bush on a SPORT Scaley but over and above that specification this new bush has bearings.

All things being equal, it has to help with performance.


Moped
 

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ACtually, the ball bearing will produce less friction, but for this there will be play in "race" therefore making them sloppy and the drive will then not be as direct bacuse it will be like ahving an oversized bearing


sorry being a smart arse now... I'll shut up!

Rob.
 

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This is a rather more complex area than it seems, at least partly because English can be such an ambiguous language.
Let's TRY to clear one thing up first - though no guarantee that we can!
A roller bearing would be 'Rollenlager'
A ball bearing is 'Kugellager' and that is what we have here.
So that confusion is eminated, or at least reduced, hopefully - we are talking about ball bearings and not roller bearings.

The unfortunate thing is that, in English, a ball bearing can sometimes mean two things
1. One of the several balls that fits into the cage of a ball bearing!
2. The complete ball bearing comprised of all its components, including the balls.
We usually accept it to mean the complete assembly and usually refer to the balls as . . . simply balls.

Now we have a bush or a bushing to try to deal with.
Is there a difference between a bush/bushing and a bearing?
In some simpler definitions there is no difference, but in others, the term 'bushing' is reserved for a bearing that contains only sliding components.
Effectively this excludes a bearing that contains rolling, liquid or gas elements.
So it has become accepted usage that a bearing must contain one of the rolling, liquid or gas elements and, if it doesn't, it is defined as a bush or bushing.

QUOTE The logic is that this is the same as the rear bush on a SPORT Scaley but over and above that specification this new bush has bearings.
Given my explanation of the generally agreed distinct difference between a bush and a bearing, I THINK we mean that it actually has balls, don't we?


QUOTE All things being equal, it has to help with performance.
WHY does it 'have to help with performance'?
I don't think this just can be taken for granted.
It is generally accepted that it can prolong the life of the moving shaft, but not necessarily that the shaft can move any faster, NOR that the ball bearing will necessarily last longer than a simple bushing, though it might.

And, there is another problem! That condition . . . unfortunately all things aren't equal and I am suggesting that, once you get below a certain size of ball some or all of the apparently obvious advantages of the balls can be actually lost.
The size of your balls DOES matter!
Things that are too small no longer work as expected.
The same applies to things that are too large.
The problem lies in defining what is 'too small' or 'too large'.
For instance, in a more familiar and perhaps simpler area such as wheels in general - if a wheel becomes small enough, it can no longer roll over what seems like a smooth flat surface because it is smaller than the pits and valleys that surfaces are really composed of. For instance, on a full-sized normal paved road, I think we can probably accept that wheels of one inch diameter simply would not work effectively. Conversely, if the wheels were hugely large, then, although they could theoretically roll across a surface better than smaller ones, they could be too big to fit on a car and become so heavy that the car could not develop the power to even rotate them. Extreme examples to illustrate the point that size really does matter.

Some other factors:
In the case of tiny steel balls, the poor little buggers lose strength extremely fast as their diameter is reduced.
Small solid balls are much weaker than large ones.

The smaller the balls, the more the pressure on them and the more the pressure on the race that they run in.
So BOTH need to be of very high quality (expense).

Uncaged ball bearings can rub against each other, causing additional friction.
This can be prevented by encasing them in a cage, but it is more complex and costly.

Efficient lubrication is much more critical than in a simple bushing.
If one ball breaks, you are buggered, to use somewhat technical terminology!

Unless the thing is properly sealed, ingress of minute particles of anything can wreck it, very fast.
If it is properly sealed then the critical lubrication becomes more difficult.

There is even more to it than I have mentioned, but there is much food for thought and perhaps an acceptance that things are not as obvious as they might at first seem?
 

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To sum Tropi up in a few words,A Bushing is allways a Bearing,but,a Bearing isn't allways a Bushing.

It's like the difference between a Fidle and a Violin.A Fidle is allways a Fiddle,but,a bunch of Fiddles is a Violin.


 

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it's just another load of old balls!

simply your saying.. "it just wont feasably work better than a boggo peice of plastic with a hole innit!"

Rob.
 

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The theory is sound, but Tropi has succeeded on this occasion in putting me off!


It would appear that the gain in the short term is not worth the pain in the longer term as things start to wear. How often to RC racers change their bearings?

Back to the success of 2004, Digital then. Tropi has yet to put me off that!



Moped
 

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Whoah!
I am not trying to put anyone off anything - only to have a damn good look at the other side of the coin, as it were. If ball bearings are good enough quality, they CAN be advantageous. Certanly they are commonish in 1/24 scale cars. But the good ones tend to be expensive and they do need a bit more care.

After checking prices, I might even give them a crack myself!

Ditto digital - it fascinates me but it does have a downside and we should try to be aware of the fullest possible picture, is all
 
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