how to run annalogue in N-Digital

Come on guys you are in danger of confusing this simple issue, the original question says.

QUOTE (Maniac @ 9 Jan 2007, 11:47) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>i have a lot of cars that have not been chipped, plus my son friends cars are not chipped.
This is about running the Analogue cars they have in their collection.

Rich

yep such a simple question that i didnt ask before, i fried one of the lane changers. cos i connected the dual transformer supply and didnt modify the lane changers. with the result puff smoke bang
now only 1 lane changer instead of 2......and will have to get 2 pairs instead of 1 to fix up the track again.

Hi Maniac

This is the third report I have heard of a lC frying when connected to Analogue. What I don't understand is that cutting the two wires is to split the lanes and to allow you to control a car in each separately. I would not expect it to prevent the LC from frying?

At the moment I cannot explain why LC's have fried when connected to an Analogue supply? Do you know how may volts your analogue supply is? Do you still have the faulty LC and can you take a picture of the fried circuit board?

See this thread here for another example.

http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=231201

Picture is not very clear, the failed component is one of the smoothing capacitors.



You can see them more clearly in this picture. Would be very interesting to see if the same component has failed on your LC?

Rich

Maniac has sent me a PM, but I will answer it here as best that the answer is shared.

QUOTE i would like to thank you for the advice
but can i ask some questions on how to turn this track into both analogue n digital

i have to disconnect the black long wire and short grey wire or completely remove them
i will place 4 lane changers and a pit lane do i have to modify the pit lane as well.
the only track part that i have to replace to use analogue is the power supple track

After the cuts are made the track will run fine in both Digital and Analogue modes.
You can either cut the wires or remove them. I would just cut them where they join the tracks at the top & bottom of the track piece. That way if the need arrises you can solder them back.

The pit lane does not require modification.

Yes that is correct the only part to swap out completely is the Console power supply track piece.

However please bear in mind that I am not happy as to why the LC was fried. We need to get to the bottom of that problem. Until we have done so there is risk of more failures, weather the wires are cut or not. Anyone who can supply pictures of fried LC electronics can help.

Also for anyone who has fried a LC when connecting an analogue Powerbase.

Which Ninco Analogue Power supply track did you use, Blue or Red?
Did it blow when conecting the power or when the throttle was first pressed?
What voltage is the Ninco PSU, particularily when off load?

I still believe that if the LC is going to fry it will do it regardless of weather the tracks are cut or not.

Rich

The transformer used was a standard ninco 14v transformer, and the part that seems that has damage is 1 of the smoothing chips or whatever that thing is

in your pic the smoothing chip is not that burned out in mine it sure is will add a pic i hope later on.

OK that's two smoothing capacitors we are getting somewhere.

Any chance of a photograph or can you check that the capacitor was fitted the correct way round?

If you look at the picture you will see there is a band on the bottom edge. Is the blown one in sufficiently good condition that you can see the band and weather it is at the bottom or top of the component?

Also can anyone measure the output voltage of the PSU with no load?

There are three possibilities when it comes to fried capacitors, going from most to least likely.
1) Too many volts applied to component.
2) Component fitted in reverse.
3) Faulty component

What I am concerned about here is that the smoothing capacitors are rated at 16V. If the off load voltage is much over 16V that could cause the capacitor to blow. Do not be mislead by it being marked 14V, if unregulated, or poorly regulated the off load voltage will be much higher.

Rich

QUOTE (RichG @ 9 Jan 2007, 19:23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There are three possibilities when it comes to fried capacitors, going from most to least likely.
1) Too many volts applied to component.
2) Component fitted in reverse.
3) Faulty component

What I am concerned about here is that the smoothing capacitors are rated at 16V. If the off load voltage is much over 16V that could cause the capacitor to blow. Do not be mislead by it being marked 14V, if unregulated, or poorly regulated the off load voltage will be much higher.
Rich

I definitly vote for 1)
I have measured the voltage of the Ninco analog supply PS148-700 and it is a 100 Hertz positive sine wave of 28 Volts peak (output of a 4 diodes bridge- Weaston- if I can recall from my studies). No doubt it kills the caps of your LC IC

So the bad news is that if you use your NINCO PS148-700 supply while converting in analog, you are going to fry your LC ICs.

But I have a good news . The N-Digital YS25-2 Supply is a true regulated 14 volts, it connects to the Red analog suppy rail and obviously works fine in analog . No reason why it will burn the LC IC.

My conclusion (but I have not tryed it yet in analog, not to burn my LCs), if you convert your N-Digital in Analog keep using either the N-Digital YS25-2 supply (or a regulated supply not exceeding too much 14 Volts)

MatraMan

Thanks MatraMan

We need to spread the word.

Do not attempt to connect your Ninco Digital track to Analogue power with the lane changers in circuit. Weather or not you have disconnected any of the wires in the changer

You should also not leave in circuit the Pit Lane or the Tower, and probably the 40206 digital sensor pieces, they have the same 16v capacitors.

Unless. You use a regulated DC supply of less than 15 Volts.

Matraman is the PS148-700 PSU the same as the N- 10301 PSU that is listed with Ninco Powerbases?
Are we sure there are no voltage regulation components in the Red or Blue Powerbases?

Rich

QUOTE (dchao @ 10 Jan 2007, 03:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>JonnyC,

It looks like from your description, only one of the two capacitors was fried. I am guessing it is the left hand one, the one that's closest to the input. That one is probably responsible for smoothing the supply voltage (24V max), the other one for the +5V.

I really think Ninco should have put in a tantalum capacitor that is rated at least for 25V for unregulated power supply side.

You can put everything back and test it with just one car with very short track. The capacitor is only there to smooth out the supply voltage, if there is only one car and very short track, you are making the noise as low as possible. And if the rest of the board is OK, the LC should still work.

if you look the pic Richg post at #8,mine is a mirror image of the one in the pic.mine's off a right-left lc.the one in the pic is off a left-right lc.but if you go by the wires solder to the board,the smoothing closest to the wire input blew out on mine.
i'm going to go by the electronic shop tomorrow and see if they have a smoothing for iy.

Morning Guys

Thanks for your inputs, as ever this one is slightly more complicated than it looks, so for the moment.

Do not attempt to run analogue with the changers in circuit.

I need to trace the circuit further to fully understand, but the connection of the components is not as it first appears.

The capacitors are in parallel, connected at one end through 2 zero ohm resistors.
One rail feeds the capacitors through the diode, it seems to be 0.7v silicon.
The other side of the capacitors connects to the other rail.

What you cannot see from the picture is that it is the negative rail that feeds the diode and the positive rail that feeds the other side of the capacitors.

In normal operation the diode is reversed biassed and measuring across the capacitors there is very little voltage.

However if the supply is connected the wrong way round, or you flick the reversing switch on the Powerbase, then the diode will conduct and you will get the full supply voltage across the capacitors. This will be what is blowing them up, and I think someone mentioned the reversing switch?

Does not make complete sense to me, without tracing the rest of the circuit, but for now advice remains the same.

Do not attempt to run analogue with the changers in circuit.

And before someone asks. I am not yet saying it's OK so long as you run clockwise, but that may be where we end up.

Rich