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I got the Mosler when it first came out and I recognize its a good car but I never got along with it. I gave up when the Slot.it Porsche GT1 came out as it was more driveable for me. Today I drive a sideway Lambo and love it.

But one of the new tracks we added to our series only allows rubber tires where all of our previous tracks were silicone. So creating a new fleet of cars with rubber, I plan to use my old mosler with a new chassis/pod and shark22 as I am hoping my previous failing with it were related to trying to use silicone.

My main issue with the Mosler of old was the tail end was always a bit to fishy or would swing out and back in any corner way more then any other car I drive in GT even using the same wheels/silicones as my current Lambo/GT1 .

So going forward today, I can use any rubber tire,any motor and can change the gears but that's it. I am currently truing up some ultragrips and two other brands of tires to have on hand and do some experiments with. I am going sidewinder to eliminate some weight.

We run this on a smooth wood track with no magnetic effect. If I start getting the pendulum effect in corners, I am going to try different tires first. At that point I am thinking about adding some weight. where would start with weight in your opinion and how much.

I assume if its nose is hopping, add it in 1,2,3. if it tips , try 6,11. previously I would add weight to 7,8,9,10 areas but it never really helped.

Should I consider adding weight to stiffen the chassis and do I want to the pod tight or loose ?

I will only get a little bit of track time for testing and tuning before the race, so any help is most appreciated.

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Whether I'm going to help you is the question?
I once wrote an article about the mosler, purely out of frustration because the mosler was hated at our club. The proposition was that anyone could drive top 3 with a out of the box Mosler!!
Unfortunately the opposite is true.
I once built a Mosler for a club member and he was by far the fastest of the club in the GT race.And he was not a good driver..lol
I got a taste for it and wanted to discover the secret of the Mosler.
I've built 6 and none came as fast as this club member.
Yes, the Mosler is potentially super fast, especially because of its build, it is very low.
However, NSR has released so many types that you can no longer see the wood for the trees.
Inline, side winder and angle winder.
Then each variant of this has a different hardness of bracket, white, red ect.
To make it even more difficult there are also 3 different hardnesses in chassis.
I have tried the differences in many variants, to my great surprise the hardness in chassis varied enormously in the livery.
I had green chassis which on paper is the stiffest than the softest (black) and now the black one I had turned out to be much stiffer than the green one. So NSR is not very constituent, it remains Italian lol. We have in common that I also drive on wood, but with foam tires in the GT class..
In recent months I have made a comparison between driving a type of car on foam compared to rubber.
We rode sideways group 5 on rubber and the club decided to ride on foam.This made a world of difference, every flaw in your car (chassis not flat) on rubber you will immediately notice on a wooden track.
My car had a bended chassis and was worthless, but on foam you could easily throw and hurl...without too many problems.
So your rubber has to be 100% round, your chassis straight and your speed on your regulator much lower than on foam, you have to be able to get your power on the rubber.
Then my experience is that an angle winder is better, but personally I prefer sidewinders because they are less critical in adjusting the gears, you can build a great car with this, but your weight distribution is different.
I have to say that I've never ridden a Mosler on rubber.
The first thing I would look at is reinforcing your chassis (see photos). A black chassis is fine on a plastic track, but never on a wooden track, this is way too soft.
Especially at the front between the axle suspension. Then I drive with a considerable amount of lead, there is also something to gain in the shoe, a red scaleauto shoe with maximum depth, promotes pushing and less de-locks. independent front wheels
and grinding tires to minimum height of the rules and treating to zero grip.Hopefully it gives food for thought
 

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Lee Green
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Just get an amato 3d printed chassis which are quite stiff and use a slot.it motor mount if racing on wood... vast improvement, the nsr chassis design is intended for plastic track.

 

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Kevs Racing Bits
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5,682 Posts
My Mosler started life as a white kit about 4 years ago, I was never happy with it, in the end I trimmed the front splitter and rear end to suit a Corvette C7R bodyshell. I probably raced it once before fitting a Honda NSX bodyshell, racing it like that for a while before retiring the car as it wasn't really competitive - where it sat gathering dust for a couple of years whilst I raced a slightly modified SlotIt Nissan R390.

By July 2021 our Sports class rarely had a Mosler on the grid as we found better cars to race...so I decided it was time to revisit the Mosler 'just to be different' to the other cars on race night....the saggy belly soft chassis needed a good rethink

My Mosler is the same version as Henri's, the original SW, original Shark 25, original soft chassis but is braced similarly to Henri's but with piano wire superglued whilst the chassis is on a flat surface...no more saggy belly soft chassis (I could have bought a 'green stiff' chassis but don't like wasting a chassis that is recoverable).



As far as ballast positions, mine has lead filling positions shown below in #6, #11 and one half the size in #12
Looking at my chassis now it could do with a piece supergluing in #3 to stiffen the guide post tongue which is a little flexible, I think I'm going to do that and it'll be the first improvement to my car in nearly 2 years.



Pod screws:
Front screw is backed off one full turn
Side screws are backed of so there's 1mm airgap
There's a strip of carpet tape across the bottom of the chassis which covers the front half of the pod.

Other tweaks:
1/8" brass tube for the front axle, superglued in place.
Independently rotating front wheels - jury is out whether this reduces lap time or not.
SlotIt SW 34T blue spur gear, 11T pinion.
I tested with a Shark 30 as the car feels slow (even though it's quicker than anything else round our track) but that extra speed was wasted as the car didn't flow as easily and tyre wear was dramatically increased so the original Shark 25 motor went back in.
NO MAGNETS!

Tyres:
Originally NSR Supergrips that were quickly changed for Extremes but realised they just aren't good enough as they ball up badly after a minute or so. NSR Ultragrips were next which work well...then the car was retired as earlier in my post.
When resurrected, I put a pair of NSR Supergrips on, glued/trued, then oiled them for a week before using it. Those tyres are now 2 years old and still get treated on race nights, they don't ball up and wear very slowly but have extreme grip.

Guide:
My guide of choice is a deep Slotingplus guide, much tougher than the Scaleauto guides. There's a brass tube with 3.6mm I.D. on top of the guide post with the table top screw snugged down to remove side to side guide slop.

There, most of the secrets are out, this car is now unbeaten in class for 14 months and holds the club lap record. We race Sports class every 7 weeks and the class is now mostly Moslers and the original SW chassis is the most popular.

So to sum up for racing on a wood track I think these need a stiff chassis with torsional flex, ballast out wide...but most importantly tyre prep, tyre prep, tyre prep...it costs nowt and the easiest and cheapest performance gain on any car.
 

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My Mosler started life as a white kit about 4 years ago, I was never happy with it, in the end I trimmed the front splitter and rear end to suit a Corvette C7R bodyshell. I probably raced it once before fitting a Honda NSX bodyshell, racing it like that for a while before retiring the car as it wasn't really competitive - where it sat gathering dust for a couple of years whilst I raced a slightly modified SlotIt Nissan R390.

By July 2021 our Sports class rarely had a Mosler on the grid as we found better cars to race...so I decided it was time to revisit the Mosler 'just to be different' to the other cars on race night....the saggy belly soft chassis needed a good rethink

My Mosler is the same version as Henri's, the original SW, original Shark 25, original soft chassis but is braced similarly to Henri's but with piano wire superglued whilst the chassis is on a flat surface...no more saggy belly soft chassis (I could have bought a 'green stiff' chassis but don't like wasting a chassis that is recoverable).



As far as ballast positions, mine has lead filling positions shown below in #6, #11 and one half the size in #12
Looking at my chassis now it could do with a piece supergluing in #3 to stiffen the guide post tongue which is a little flexible, I think I'm going to do that and it'll be the first improvement to my car in nearly 2 years.



Pod screws:
Front screw is backed off one full turn
Side screws are backed of so there's 1mm airgap
There's a strip of carpet tape across the bottom of the chassis which covers the front half of the pod.

Other tweaks:
1/8" brass tube for the front axle, superglued in place.
Independently rotating front wheels - jury is out whether this reduces lap time or not.
SlotIt SW 34T blue spur gear, 11T pinion.
I tested with a Shark 30 as the car feels slow (even though it's quicker than anything else round our track) but that extra speed was wasted as the car didn't flow as easily and tyre wear was dramatically increased so the original Shark 25 motor went back in.
NO MAGNETS!

Tyres:
Originally NSR Supergrips that were quickly changed for Extremes but realised they just aren't good enough as they ball up badly after a minute or so. NSR Ultragrips were next which work well...then the car was retired as earlier in my post.
When resurrected, I put a pair of NSR Supergrips on, glued/trued, then oiled them for a week before using it. Those tyres are now 2 years old and still get treated on race nights, they don't ball up and wear very slowly but have extreme grip.

Guide:
My guide of choice is a deep Slotingplus guide, much tougher than the Scaleauto guides. There's a brass tube with 3.6mm I.D. on top of the guide post with the table top screw snugged down to remove side to side guide slop.

There, most of the secrets are out, this car is now unbeaten in class for 14 months and holds the club lap record. We race Sports class every 7 weeks and the class is now mostly Moslers and the original SW chassis is the most popular.

So to sum up for racing on a wood track I think these need a stiff chassis with torsional flex, ballast out wide...but most importantly tyre prep, tyre prep, tyre prep...it costs nowt and the easiest and cheapest performance gain on any car.
Nice report Kevin...thats why i love this forum...you want help you get it , top!!
 

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Kevs Racing Bits
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5,682 Posts
Just to add, my lead ballast is held in with Shoe Goo, it's not just resting on top of the plastic with blutac, it's firmly fixed which add rigidity.

...and superglue those rear bearings in, too many races have been ruined by them popping out after a shunt.
 

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Rich Dumas
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4,334 Posts
If you are running without traction magnets you want to have your front tires firmly planted at all times, if they are not the car will lift the inside rear wheel and that will cause the car to abruptly spin out.
If the car is generally too loose you probably have a tire problem, assuming that the car is not overpowered. If your Mosler came with a 25K motor you might want to switch to a 20 or 22K motor.
For club racing your tires should be glued to the wheels and trued using a dedicated machine. Some tires will then need to be polished to get their maximum grip. Do not assume that softer tires will always have the best grip.
Here is a tuning article: Tuning for Non-Magnet Racing.pdf
and also one on tires: Tires for Slot Racing V2.pdf
 

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I too have never gotten along with the mosler. Sidewinder,25k & 30k motors, & 3 different chassis on scalex sport. Maybe it’s time to revisit. I’ll let you know. I seem to recall Chris Walkers pics using a rear axle stiffener with a piece of lead in the center of the pod. I might try that.

Mike M.
 

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What’s with the love for sidewinders????
Mosler angle winder with minimal adjustments, lossening screws etc., glued and trued tyres, maybe a little weight at the front to stop lifting and that should be all you need for ……. Probably the best slot car ever made

All the haters, just stop it.

Max
 

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Kevs Racing Bits
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5,682 Posts
What’s with the love for sidewinders????
Mosler angle winder with minimal adjustments, lossening screws etc., glued and trued tyres, maybe a little weight at the front to stop lifting and that should be all you need for ……. Probably the best slot car ever made

All the haters, just stop it.

Max
Nope. Not hate, cold hard data, SW is quicker unless you're a mag racer. Group 5 and GT3 proxies over the last few years prove SW is a better racer option for magless racing. SW drive better, flow better, accelerate better and a more balanced layout.
 

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What’s with the love for sidewinders????
Mosler angle winder with minimal adjustments, lossening screws etc., glued and trued tyres, maybe a little weight at the front to stop lifting and that should be all you need for ……. Probably the best slot car ever made

All the haters, just stop it.

Max
Hi Max, Jeremy, (the initiator of this thread) indicated that he will be running on wood. On plastic tracks, the considerable magnetic offered by many Longcan (FK-180) motors, far outweighs the negative handling aspects of the FK-180's on wood. A typical FK-180 weighs 12/13 gms more than an FC-130, and this weight adds to the pendulum effect, reducing effective grip, transition response, and, increases lap times.

You will not find any anglewinder FK-180's at the sharp end of any of the more competitive proxies/club events, held on wood. In the quickest forms of slot racing, all racers are continually trying to reduce the motor weight.

Cheers
Chris Walker
 

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Hello Jeremy, setting up a car for wood is certainly different than a set up for plastic.


As wood generally offers more grip than plastic, any plastic car will benefit (more often than not) from being stiffer on both the longitudinal, and torsional planes. ...this will reduce both axle tramping and chatter which will increase with...track grip and track layout, tire grip, and stronger motors.
When the first Moslers were launched (2006), we ran class for them at the shop, and as the initial chassis plates were like wet noodles, we added brass strip/styrene/piano wire etc. to stiffen them..........as NSR began to offer stiffer chassis plates and pods. the need for additional stiffening (particularly in the chassis plate, became less necessary......the current "stiff" chassis plates are plenty stiff enough, but, there are still mods. to be made.

While much improved, the chassis plate does respond well to adding bushings to the holes in the front uprights,...this negates the fore/aft movement of the front axle which if left unmodified, adds a "steering" effect to the front end....this is not the hot tip for smooth/consistent handling, as the front end will tend to oscillate. I would not glue in a front end tube, as once glued, it will be hard to adjust the front end for tracks with either proud or recessed rails/braid/tape.
You can buy some reduced bore front end bushings that will slip right in and eliminate much of the fore/aft front axle movement. Additionally these bushings are long enough that the front end set/grub screw will run on the outside of the bushing, not the axle.

While leaving the pod loose is certainly very often beneficial on plastic (bumpy) tracks, it is not the hot tip for wood tracks, where a "controlled" flex is much more beneficial. (Having a pod that can move freely is like driving your 1:1 car without shocks,...the wheels bouncing around where they may.....if you cannot control the movement of the wheels, and keep them on the track, traction/lateral grip and consistent handling suffer.
Many folks use fibre reinforced tape across the bottom of the pod/chassis to control this movement,....I prefer to use silicone washers both above and below the pod lugs, secured with machine screws and Nylok nuts. By adjusting the nuts, I can create various amounts of controlled torsional flex to suit various tracks/tires/motors etc.

As far the pod, I would highly recommend the axle tubes made by Sloting Plus. These have been around for more than 15yrs. and a godsend for any anglewinder/sidewinder motor pod. The tube eliminates any independent flexing of the rear uprights.......which causes axle binding, chatter, and mesh issues.
Drilling holes in the NSR pod (to mount the motor via screws) is also highly advisable.

Regarding tires,.....well largely the most important aspect of the car.....if you are using rubber, they must be glued/trued and treated, and even then if you do 5/6 pr. 1 pr will be noticeably better than the others...............If you can find "Non" evo NSR super or ultra grips you will be ahead of the game.
Another worthwhile mod. is to use "air wheels" with a foam/sponge insert between the center ribs...this has the effect of "softening" the tire, allowing it to compress more, and load more progressively,....aiding grip.
These foam insets have been available from ScaleRacing/MRSlotcar for quite a while, and recently Thunderslot has begun to produce them.

Well sorted, the NSR Mosler is a VERY potent car

Cheers
Chris Walker

A couple of pics.

A mosler chassis (painted "stiff" pod), ....silicone washers above and below the pod lugs, and, between the chassis plate and body posts, SlotingPlus axle tube, pod drilled to accept motor screws.......pic. taken before testing/weight added




For the motor/tires/track that this was built for 6gms. of weight were added to each chassis plate sidepan



This is an NSR Porsche 997,......basically the same mods as above,.....this pic. shows the front added axle bushings.

With NSR (non Evo) Ultragrips, and weighing 85gms.

As is, this car won the recent Porsche 997 proxy........entries from the US,Canada, UK, Japan, and AUS.


 

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I like my Mosler. King21, sidewinder, red motor pod, red GT3 tyres, soft blue chassis, standard wheels and lightweight interior.
Running on West London's old, bumpy Scaley classic and sport track.
It is competitive. There are a couple of Scaleauto Zondas that are quicker round our track.
But the fastest car is a Mosler in pretty much standard trim with a King25 motor with a high gear ratio. I don't know how the lad made it so quick. It brakes, accelerates and fast down the straight.
The rest of us can't work it out.
 

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Kevs Racing Bits
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5,682 Posts
I like my Mosler. King21, sidewinder, red motor pod, red GT3 tyres, soft blue chassis, standard wheels and lightweight interior.
Running on West London's old, bumpy Scaley classic and sport track.
It is competitive. There are a couple of Scaleauto Zondas that are quicker round our track.
But the fastest car is a Mosler in pretty much standard trim with a King25 motor with a high gear ratio. I don't know how the lad made it so quick. It brakes, accelerates and fast down the straight.
The rest of us can't work it out.
You mean Shark 21 and Shark 25, King motors are FK180 cans and will only fit IL or AW.
 

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I prefer a sidewinder drive over an anglewinder drive, assuming I can fit the motor between the rear wheels.

The advantage of an anglewinder is that you can fit a larger motor. But you give up efficiency in the drive train, especially if the rear axle is supported by bushings rather than ball bearings. The anglewinder setup creates sideways thrust in the rear axle, as well as axial thrust in the motor armature. Both need to be resisted by the bushings, creating drag and reducing efficiency.

The sidewinder setup is inherently more efficient, given the motor will fit. In addition, it places the weight of the motor closer to the rear axle where it adds to traction. Furthermore the motor shaft does not need to be the same height above the track as the rear axle. There is no loss of efficiency if they are at different heights.

The handling aspects of anglewinder versus sidewinder are not so clear-cut. I don't know there are any inherent advantages to either setup. I believe a sidewinder car can be a bit lighter than an anglewinder, due to motor placement. But once you start adding weight that becomes a questionable asset.

I suppose I should note that the inefficiency of the anglewinder setup will contribute to braking. But since most competitive slotters use little or no brakes, maybe not an advantage.

It all comes back to how long the motor is. I'll go to considerable trouble to shoehorn a motor in sidewinder. Failing that, anglewinder is next best.

Ed Bianchi
 

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The sidewinder setup is inherently more efficient, given the motor will fit. In addition, it places the weight of the motor closer to the rear axle where it adds to traction. Furthermore the motor shaft does not need to be the same height above the track as the rear axle. There is no loss of efficiency if they are at different heights.

Ed Bianchi
Hi Ed,...Given that FK-180 motors are generally 12/13 gms heavier than a FC-130,...and also given that most anglewinder set-ups are not at overly large angles, the use of a FK-180 in an anglewinder configuration, ends up with a greater weight on the rear axle, vs a FC-130 in a sidewinder configuration. If you are comparing an FC-130, in a sidewinder to an FC-130 in an anglewinder configuration, then yes, the sidewinder will place more weight on the rear axle.

In both sidewinder or anglewinder configurations, the height (positioning around the circumference of the Spur) of the motor shaft is irrelevant (any position of the motor shaft around the circumference of the spur is equally efficient in both configurations),....so there is no advantage to the sidewinder in terms of efficiency vs, the anglewinder from a motor positioning perspective.

Cheers
Chris Walker
 

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Alan Wilkinson
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1,462 Posts
Hi Pete,
The mosler is a marmite car.
You either "get it" and can set it up or you can't.
There are some much better technicians and drivers (than me) at Nascot who just can't get their moslers to fly.
The key component is the motor mount. If you're used to slot it type mounts the 3 point triangular nsr mount Is a completely different beast. The front suspension point is critical. I generally have it on soft springs with quite a lot of travel.
AlanW

Ps can't wait to see yusef up at nascot again for a sport GT night. Game on!
 
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