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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have 4 Carrera Pro-X DTM cars that I have chipped with Scorpius chips. 3 of the cars count laps flawlessly and the 4th is not consistent at all. So I removed a chip from a car that works and put it into the car that didn't but still no luck. I thought that since I didn't ground any chips to the motor can, that maybe this car needed that done. I did that, but still doesn't work. I took the chip out and put it back in the working car I got it from and it again works fine. I measured to be sure all my sensor holes are all right and every car has it in the exact same position. Has anyone run into this problem before? Any ideas? When the car is travelling slow over the start/finish LB it counts fine, but anything even close to full speed doesn't work. The other cars are also faster and they work fine. Oh, and I tried different controllers and that made no difference either.
 

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Mmm i can only think of two car-specific things: ground clearance or guide flag issues.

Ground clearance: if the bottom of the car sits higher than these of the other cars, this might be a cause.
For experimental purposes, i chipped a vintage Scaley Porsche - these have massive ground clearance, well over 5 mm. I put in the sensor as in other cars: flush with the bottom of the car. No single lap was counted in this car, the sensor sits simply too high above the track.

Guide flag issues: the guide flag might be very thin, causing a lot of free play in the slot - and free play of the sensor over the LC led.
Or the guide flag is somehow not in the middle of the car, so the sensor is always out of the reaching zone of the LC led.

Hope this helps,

Merc
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the suggestions Merc. I compared the guide flags and sensor distance and it is pretty much identical between all cars.
 

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Hi hOOch,

Interesting. Try swapping motors. Also when solderuing to a motor can use the corner edge of a file and make a "V" on the corner of the can. Use a 25W soldering iron at least and ensure its not a cold solder. Use flux based solder. Try breaking the solder off the can when done. If it holds tight you know its a proper solder joint.

The LEd to photodiode relationship is not that dicey if the guide allows side to side movement in the slot it will not be a cause.

Rick
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks Rick, I'll try swapping motors. The solder joint is good and I also tested for continuity.
 

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Check for slop in the shaft as this causes a lot of "noise".
 

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As your reports indicate, it has to be a car specific issue, since swapping chips and controllers did not change the problem.

When free play in the slot is not an issue as Rick states, what's left is free play in vertical sense.
If slop in the guide flag is out, what's left is issues with the axles / wheels or a curled car underpan. On the eye it may look good, but on the track it can work out differently.
If there's a wobbly front wheel, (say in extremis oval shaped tyres, bent axle or wheel rim not attached well on the axle, excess plastic on the rims, axle slop or worse) when driving the car might have a slight yet continuous "wobbly" vertical movement or vibration, another possible cause for the signal noise Rick mentioned.

Merc
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I switched motors and it works perfectly now. Thanks guys for your help, but it would be nice to determine why this particular motor is so "noisy". It is the motor in the car I have ran the most. Is it possibly just a sign of age and it's about to go?
 

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You will probably find its full of debris. When I pulled my motors apart I found iron filings which add resistance and hence noise. If you can have a look....

Rick
 

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Remarks to the first entry:

I have 4 Carrera Pro-X DTM cars that I have chipped with Scorpius chips. 3 of the cars count laps flawlessly and the 4th is not consistent at all. So I removed a chip from a car that works and put it into the car that didn't but still no luck. I thought that since I didn't ground any chips to the motor can, that maybe this car needed that done. I did that, but still doesn't work. I took the chip out and put it back in the working car I got it from and it again works fine. I measured to be sure all my sensor holes are all right and every car has it in the exact same position. Has anyone run into this problem before? Any ideas? When the car is travelling slow over the start/finish LB it counts fine, but anything even close to full speed doesn't work. The other cars are also faster and they work fine. Oh, and I tried different controllers and that made no difference either.

I had the same issue with a Pro-X Formular 1 car. The motor is grounded, only the ferrit was missing and i still had the diode on the motor block (i had a carrera 132 digital decoder integrated, to protect the electronic from motor electronic induction).
Drilled 8 mm holes in the track. LED from the LB about 4 mm under track surface, and car LED in original position of the Pro-X chassis.

Driving slow lap counting working....driving fast ....missing signals.

After discussion with my friend "diegu", i drilled a new hole in the chasis and change the position of the car LED.
Diegu had the car LED about 2 mm over the track surface, in the original Pro-X Chassis the LED position is far away from the track surface (it´s positioned at least 10 to 12 mm away because of the funny spring construction).
Now the LED of the car is right in the bottom plate, even 75% of the LED body is out of the car and about 2-3 mm close to the track surface.
The reliability of the lap counting improved dramatically!

I removed now the diode and will also install the ferrits like Rick´s recommendation.

Honestly, i can not believe that we have to buy new motors because of the "noise" and interference.
It can not be that the position of the LED in track or car must be in a tolerance of less then 1 mm.
The distance in the height make sense depending on the signal strenght and angle of view.

Otherwise Scorpius would be to sensitive to be sold to millions of people......
 

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Ferrites and capacitors no longer required.
Until a day or two ago no reported issues with any motors except a while back I reported a badly worn 25K Shark was causing me grief.

Rick
 

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I had issues with some cars also and I thought it was about accuracy of installation. I have to say it is not! The system is quite tolerant concerning accuracy.
I have the impression, the system works reliable for overall distances from car LED to LB beacon from at least 3 to 8 mm.
(Having the beacons 2-5 mm below the track, my car leds vary from 1-3 mm in height).

However, I had issues with some cars and reading the post from h00ch concerning this one car that did not work, I went through it again.

I cleaned the dirty motors using "Rapid Cleaner" (In Germany we call it "Bremsenreiniger" - Brake Cleaner).
A lot of dirt came out of the motor. After that I lubricated very carefully.

Works a treat. The cars now work flawlessly: High speed, sideways,... no problem)

So in my case: No need to buy new motors, I just had to clean them. And that were motors I now race for more than five years.

Diegu
 

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Still it sounds logical. I also noticed with some cars, passing over slowly enables counting a lap, passing over quickly causes it to miss a lap. This made me think of bad placement of LB led and/or car decoder sensor.

My LB leds are about the same distance under the track, top- tip of led around 3-5 mm. under the track surface.
When i drive over it with a modern Scalextric car like the lambo gallardo (ground clearance around 3 mm.) it always has a catch.
With an old Scalextric car the ground clearance can be around 7 mm, causing it to ignore LB leds when passing over it.
I figure when you drive modern NSR cars with way less than 3 mm. ground clearance, the catch is perfect.

So i wonder, what is the ideal vertical distance between tip of LB led and underside of the in-car sensor?
And second, what are the margins?

Merc
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
My LB0 LEDs are about 5mm below the track surface and the LEDs on the Carrera DTM cars are about 3mm above the track surface. My LB0 LED holes are 8mm in diameter. All cars count laps perfectly except when this particular motor is installed it will miss laps when driven at even a moderate speed.

Here's the motor that's causing the problems. Although it's about 8 years old, it doesn't "look" overly dirty to me. I will try cleaning it anyways to see if it makes a difference. Can someone post a link to motor maintenance? I haven't done it before and it would be good to know any tricks or particular things to look for that show wear, etc. TIA

 

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8 years? Thats old, but I guess it depends how many laps its done. I can totally wear out a motor in 6 months, so much so there is 1/16th" freeplay in the shaft.
Its hard to tell from here but the motor could have a resistance issue because of the windings.
Interesting Diegu cleaned his motor and had a better result. In any case I think its a rare event as its the first reported case since release 6 months ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
8 years old, but there were a few years with no use at all. It was out of the car I've ran the most, but like I said, not much use between moving from my old house 5 years ago to getting the RMS going. These DTM cars were only chipped within the past few weeks since receiving the RMS. Before that, I was chipping/testing with "beater" cars.
 

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Use the diagnostic tools supplied.
Simply run the car data program. This will tell you if its a LB issue or car issue. If the LB shows up on car data but doesnt count the lap or change lanes, or it changes lanes by itself then its a transmission issue in which case reboot it. If it reboots theres a good chance the chip is good. If it doesnt reboot its probably a faulty chip.
 

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Use the diagnostic tools supplied.
Simply run the car data program. This will tell you if its a LB issue or car issue. If the LB shows up on car data but doesnt count the lap or change lanes, or it changes lanes by itself then its a transmission issue in which case reboot it. If it reboots theres a good chance the chip is good. If it doesnt reboot its probably a faulty chip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Seemed to have floated away from the issue here... I've already established that it's an issue with the motor since swapping the motor out and leaving everything else the same works fine. Just trying to determine what it is about the motor that is different from the rest. I don't know anything about these motors, so I was asking about links to maintenance tips and things to look for that show wear.
 
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