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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #101 ·
Separately powering the LCs appears to solve the problem of unwanted flipper movement! I just tested two XLCs that I had already modified for separate power and no problem with unwanted flipper movement in analog mode, digital functionality no problem.

Wouldn't you know, the only LC that I had not modified for separate power was the pit-in.
 

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Prof I T
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Hi

independently powered flippers in ssd, time to raise a glass to Drummer
clap.gif
r.i.p.
 

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Discussion Starter · #103 ·
Ah, Ade, thanks for remembering it was Drummer's mod, it was one of the earliest, Jan of '05!

For anyone who needs it, the thread is pinned in the Technical Links on the SSD board.
 

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novice jazz player &
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Dr_C,

Hope you are warm, safe, and not buried under snow!

If the LC problem is caused by ARC PRO's better wave shaping circuitry, would the simplest fix for the LC problem be just substituting an ARC AIR pb in the layout when you want to race analog?

Shouldn't be a problem for the LCs since most people desolder the internal LC track power wires and power them separately by connecting them to the power supply. My point is the LCs can handle straight DC. Even if they are not modified to be powered separately you should not need to remove them with a DC pb in the layout. (I'm assuming ARC AIR is a DC pb.)

It would be a hassle to swap pbs for a permanent layout but not so much for rug racers, who probably make up the lion's share of the customer base. Maybe this is why Scaley has not spent the money to fix the LC problem?

Hmm, thinking this through, does separately powering the LCs solve the problem?
Hi Pault86,

Yepp, the problem only occurs when the LC circuitry is powering up... so a modification which isolates the circuits of the LCs from the track voltages, with the LCs powered directly from a dc source would overcome the problem of unrequested flipper movements in analog mode. And, of course, these would not require any power when in analog mode anyway.

The ARC AIR uses a pulse width modulation technique to achieve analog control which is similar to the ARC PRO when in analog mode.

And, yes, enjoying the snow , many thanks...

C
 

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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
Thanks, Dr_C!

You can tell it has been a long time since I thought about how SSD works - it is so obvious but it took me weeks to think of it.

Anyway, I have developed good skill with the soldering iron!
smile.png
 

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novice jazz player &
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interesting... so i guess most club tracks use separate power for the flippers (in this case the only benefit of the mod is to avoid any flipper movements during initial power-up). Where the mods are more relevant is for portable installations where track power is used to power the LCs... I believe this is how the problem was first identified. I have XLCs and pit lane changers and most showed the problem in standard track configurations when in analog mode.

Thanks for your above post - becoming clearer on the cases where the mod is not relevant definitely helps :)

C
 

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Yes, it is definitely a problem Scaley should fix.
grump.gif
Nothing in their doc says to remove LCs from the layout or separately power them when running in analog mode. The only reason more people aren't screaming is because the ARC PRO set works ok with digital cars. As more sets are sold and people start trying to use analog there will be more complaints. Your mod to the PB to fix the polarity problem is probably even more pressing. If I understand that mod correctly it will allow not only CLCs and 2 into 1 chicanes but also "crossies" - wires soldered underneath track pieces to bridge the lanes on layouts run solely in digital mode.

We began separately powering the LCs because the original c7030 pb was so underpowered - output voltage fell off quickly as the current draw increased. Triggering a lane change would slow the cars, and an off would speed them up. The first post in RichG's Simple H development thread has a chart that shows the problem, it is masterful work to look back on.

By now, probably everybody who has a permanent layout has separately powered the LCs, except for the odd piece here or there like my pit-in. I think Mr. Flippant must have had the problem with his portable track which probably uses track power for the LCs.

Now that you have fixed not only the ARC pb but also the LCs,
clap.gif
the next mod I'd like to see is a better app.

BTW, have you seen Mr. Flippant's Digital Racing Alliance of Western Washington? Also here on SFI. These guys have nice permanent tracks and do lots of racing and I think a few of them have moved to ARC PRO or at least tried it.
 

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Greg Gaub
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My portable track has lots of help with power, but the LCs are still powered by the track. I don't use it for analog at all, though.

DRAWW doesn't have any ARC powered tracks yet, but there are a couple interested. Once software development gets to a good point, there will probably be some movement with that.
 

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novice jazz player &
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Yes, it is definitely a problem Scaley should fix.:grump: Nothing in their doc says to remove LCs from the layout or separately power them when running in analog mode. The only reason more people aren't screaming is because the ARC PRO set works ok with digital cars. As more sets are sold and people start trying to use analog there will be more complaints. Your mod to the PB to fix the polarity problem is probably even more pressing. If I understand that mod correctly it will allow not only CLCs and 2 into 1 chicanes but also "crossies" - wires soldered underneath track pieces to bridge the lanes on layouts run solely in digital mode.

We began separately powering the LCs because the original c7030 pb was so underpowered - output voltage fell off quickly as the current draw increased. Triggering a lane change would slow the cars, and an off would speed them up. The first post in RichG's Simple H development thread has a chart that shows the problem, it is masterful work to look back on.

By now, probably everybody who has a permanent layout has separately powered the LCs, except for the odd piece here or there like my pit-in. I think Mr. Flippant must have had the problem with his portable track which probably uses track power for the LCs.

Now that you have fixed not only the ARC pb but also the LCs, :clap: the next mod I'd like to see is a better app.

BTW, have you seen Mr. Flippant's Digital Racing Alliance of Western Washington? Also here on SFI. These guys have nice permanent tracks and do lots of racing and I think a few of them have moved to ARC PRO or at least tried it.
Thanks Pault86, appreciate the overview and really informative links to earlier problems and how they were solved re track power. On the point of the ARC PRO power base mod this, as you say, does permit any form of bridging between lanes for digital mode, as technically with this mod there is a single power source which identically powers both tracks when switched to digital mode. Of course, if switching to analog mode this configuration may cause overload/damage as the two lanes should operate separately in that mode. Perhaps taping over the analog/digital switch (to ensure it stays in digital mode without possibility of being accidentally switched to analog) would make sense if retaining any form of track power bridging.

C
 

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Premium Member
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Discussion Starter · #110 ·
Wired up my pit-in for separate power and, of course, that fixed the problem of flipper movement in analog mode.

Easier to mod the LCs for separate power than to install the resistor, but the resistor is needed if separate power is not an option.

Many thanks, Dr_C!
 
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