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Don't know where this is going but….

In this thread link we came up with the idea to have a RCS64 race between different members around the world, using the same layout at the same time with the same cars, same settings etc and share the results realtime through internet. This gained some interest across the world so time to open a dedicated thread to explore the possibilities. The ultimate goal would be to incorporate this feature in RCS64 so all the experience we gain from the first event will be very helpfull.
The first event will be a pilot to explore further options for the future. Internet slotcar racing has been done before with Scalextric Sport World, the idea was good but maybe the timing wasn't right.
For this first time we use RCS64 and try to see what is happening on the other tracks around the world by using teamviewer (or maybe people have other suggestions-Skype?). I don't think we are able to have a general website where we can see all the realtime results, at least not for this first time.

Checklist:

1) Date and time
Starting with; what day of the week ? Sunday ?

2) Lay Out

Lay out should be exactly the same. Location of lane changers, pit lane (and length), borders.
Mr Flippant's Portable track ? Grunz's suggestions ? Available space and track pieces ?
-2 standard power supplies.
-Type of controller ; all types are ok
-No use of pit sensors.
-Power taps

3) Cars

Same brand, same type, same car ? Magnets, tyres ?
My proposal Scalextric GT cars and name a few models (C-numbers)
Out of the box, no magnet, third party tyres, standard chip.
Obviously we need some (simple) rules
Maybe we can find a sponsor for the cars…

4) Event settings

Practice, Qualify
Endurance (1 hr, 2hrs ?, ..)
Tyre wear (weather is random but you can use hard and soft without weather simulation)
Available sets of tyres
Tyre change time
False start
Race end
No track call (Marshalls)
Throttle profiles ( I would say no limit)
Brake setting (Dynamic/no brakes/button all allowed)

5) Racing Rules

We need some basic rules, like;

-No contact ( we can check the new DiSCA rules, and/or the Scalextric WC rules)
-Stop and Go (when to apply)

I think the best would be to have at least 2 people at a track, they act as a team and switch during pit stop. When not racing, you marshall.

No limit to amount of teams on a track, however I would say 2 or 3 teams (4-6 people) per location would be good.

No limit to amount of locations where the racing is being held. For this first event, the limit will be teamviewer (or alternative) limit. And even than we can keep track of what is happening. A Print Screen every 5 minutes would be good in any case.

So…Let's see where this is going. I am excited. I can see that when this works, the possibilities are endless.
 

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Greg Gaub
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Doesn't Google have a thing where multiple people can do video chat? We might be able to do that, and set our screen as the "video" output. I believe that may allow anyone to view any other race screen. Spectators may also be able to watch races. Though, it would be cool to have a web cam on the tracks.
 

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Greg Gaub
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Checklist:
1) Date and time
Weekend. Can't really pick a particular day, because Saturday for me is Sunday for Mr. Kiwi. I can do a Friday morning, which would be Friday night for you, and Saturday morning for him. In any case, I'm sure something can be chosen using the thing he set up: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20150207&p1=22&p2=16&p3=234

2) Lay Out
Lay out should be exactly the same. Location of lane changers, pit lane (and length), borders.
I agree with your stipulations. Setting up the track continuity should be left to the host. If you're happy with no taps but your tracks are well crimped, that's fine by me. I'll probably go that route, though I do have two pieces I set up to jump power from near the bad to away from the base (though physically close) that I used for my party tracks, and would probably use.

For the layout, I can post a TrackPower file with my current stock of spare track, if anyone thinks it's helpful. It could be shared around so that each person removes stock they do NOT have, which should leave us with a file with stock we ALL have. Then we can all propose layouts from that stock?

3) Cars
My proposal Scalextric GT cars and name a few models (C-numbers)
Out of the box, no magnet, third party tyres, standard chip.
I think that pretty much covers it. I'd go with easily sourced urethane tires. They give good grip, and do not benefit from softening treatments. Allowing them to be glued and trued would get a big vote from me.

4) Event settings
Practice, Qualify
I'm not sure how this would even work? I figure, practice as much as you like. If not, then there should be a rule that one CANNOT practice until the designated time, so that the track is just as new to everyone racing.

Ideally, there should be at LEAST two cars on each track, even if one is a fixed speed pace car with random lane changing. It just wouldn't have the excitement if it were just one car running laps at each location. If there are more than one live driver on a track, let them decide where they grid. In the overall scheme, it shouldn't really matter much. In practice, unless there are 3 or more cars on the track, it won't matter at all.

Endurance (1 hr, 2hrs ?, ..)
Tyre wear (weather is random but you can use hard and soft without weather simulation)
I like the idea of weather, but we should be able to set it to 3 changes, and keep resetting until we all get the same, pre-determined pattern. The question is, will they change at the same time, or randomly?

Available sets of tyres - Depends on weather
Tyre change time - I have no preference
False start - That would be tricky, especially if we're trying to coordinate the start timing with internet lag. For RCS64, it's just a stop and go, rather than a restart like some other options, so I don't mind using false start detection.
Race end - I like it when all cars finish the lap they're on.
No track call (Marshalls). Yeah, it has to go without stopping. So that means I will definitely need a DRAWW member to participate.
Throttle profiles ( I would say no limit) - I agree. With RCS64, fuel burn is based on CAR speed, not Throttle level, so the profile should not effect fuel burn apart from giving the driver a curve that fits their style and car.
Brake setting (Dynamic/no brakes/button all allowed). For magless, I like dynamic brakes. If we go with stock Scaley GT and urethane tires, I'd want to use them. But, I have no problem letting people choose to use brakes or not. That said, with tire wear and weather and all that, I might go brakeless.

5) Racing Rules

-No contact ( we can check the new DiSCA rules, and/or the Scalextric WC rules)
Fine by me. As it's likely to be just one car (and maybe a pacer) on my track, this shouldn't have an effect on my race.

-Stop and Go (when to apply)
For contact?

I think the best would be to have at least 2 people at a track, they act as a team and switch during pit stop. When not racing, you marshall.
I agree. In this case, we also need to decide when drivers must, or may, switch. For example, ALL pit stops? After a certain number of crashes? Only refueling stops? Etc.

No limit to amount of teams on a track, however I would say 2 or 3 teams (4-6 people) per location would be good.
That would be good, but given the time constraints, unlikely to happen for most locations, and especially unlikely for mine.. unless it manages to fall on my Sunday between 2 and 6pm. ;-)

No limit to amount of locations where the racing is being held. For this first event, the limit will be teamviewer (or alternative) limit. And even than we can keep track of what is happening. A Print Screen every 5 minutes would be good in any case.
For which we'll definitely need a spare person working the computer. This could be the track marshal at the moment. Those using wireless control can crash and dash. ;-)
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for your input Greg, here we go;

Checklist:
1) Date and time
Weekend. Can't really pick a particular day, because Saturday for me is Sunday for Mr. Kiwi. I can do a Friday morning, which would be Friday night for you, and Saturday morning for him. In any case, I'm sure something can be chosen using the thing he set up: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meet...2=16&p3=234

Agreed It should be weekend. We are now focusing on 3 times, but they are so far apart I think 90% of other people want to join will be around the same time zones.

2) Lay Out
Lay out should be exactly the same. Location of lane changers, pit lane (and length), borders.
I agree with your stipulations. Setting up the track continuity should be left to the host. If you're happy with no taps but your tracks are well crimped, that's fine by me. I'll probably go that route, though I do have two pieces I set up to jump power from near the bad to away from the base (though physically close) that I used for my party tracks, and would probably use.

For the layout, I can post a TrackPower file with my current stock of spare track, if anyone thinks it's helpful. It could be shared around so that each person removes stock they do NOT have, which should leave us with a file with stock we ALL have. Then we can all propose layouts from that stock?

I would prefer to see proposals of lay outs, with used parts. For instance, the ones posted by Grunz look good to me, and I would like to see yours too.
Your stock would be fine too, but I'd rather see a lay out first



3) Cars
My proposal Scalextric GT cars and name a few models (C-numbers)
Out of the box, no magnet, third party tyres, standard chip.
I think that pretty much covers it. I'd go with easily sourced urethane tires. They give good grip, and do not benefit from softening treatments. Allowing them to be glued and trued would get a big vote from me.

I am ok with that, but you have to tell me where to get them, or the brand and size etc.

4) Event settings
Practice, Qualify
I'm not sure how this would even work? I figure, practice as much as you like. If not, then there should be a rule that one CANNOT practice until the designated time, so that the track is just as new to everyone racing.

I dont mind that people practice, but I think we should have a practice and qualify session before the official start, to check if the set ups work correct, including teamviewer etc.
Qualify,well, just for the fun of It, if you are last, you start on track piece 12 before SF


Ideally, there should be at LEAST two cars on each track, even if one is a fixed speed pace car with random lane changing. It just wouldn't have the excitement if it were just one car running laps at each location. If there are more than one live driver on a track, let them decide where they grid. In the overall scheme, it shouldn't really matter much. In practice, unless there are 3 or more cars on the track, it won't matter at all.

Agreed, a minimum of 2 cars. I am not sure pacers keep going for 2 hrs without attention. Pace car function in RCS is very good, but I prefer human driver.

Endurance (1 hr, 2hrs ?, ..)
Tyre wear (weather is random but you can use hard and soft without weather simulation)
I like the idea of weather, but we should be able to set it to 3 changes, and keep resetting until we all get the same, pre-determined pattern. The question is, will they change at the same time, or randomly?

Random, that's why I want to use tyre simualtion without weather., Just hard and soft.

Example;





Available sets of tyres - Depends on weather

See above


Tyre change time - I have no preference: 10 sec

False start - That would be tricky, especially if we're trying to coordinate the start timing with internet lag. For RCS64, it's just a stop and go, rather than a restart like some other options, so I don't mind using false start detection.

Ok, False start on, Stop&Go 10 seconds


Race end - I like it when all cars finish the lap they're on.
OK
No track call (Marshalls). Yeah, it has to go without stopping. So that means I will definitely need a DRAWW member to participate.

OK

Throttle profiles ( I would say no limit) - I agree. With RCS64, fuel burn is based on CAR speed, not Throttle level, so the profile should not effect fuel burn apart from giving the driver a curve that fits their style and car.
Brake setting (Dynamic/no brakes/button all allowed). For magless, I like dynamic brakes. If we go with stock Scaley GT and urethane tires, I'd want to use them. But, I have no problem letting people choose to use brakes or not. That said, with tire wear and weather and all that, I might go brakeless.

Dynamic/no brakes/button all allowed

5) Racing Rules

-No contact ( we can check the new DiSCA rules, and/or the Scalextric WC rules)
Fine by me. As it's likely to be just one car (and maybe a pacer) on my track, this shouldn't have an effect on my race.

-Stop and Go (when to apply)
For contact? YES, and false start

I think the best would be to have at least 2 people at a track, they act as a team and switch during pit stop. When not racing, you marshall.
I agree. In this case, we also need to decide when drivers must, or may, switch. For example, ALL pit stops? After a certain number of crashes? Only refueling stops? Etc.

Most fair is all pit stops

No limit to amount of teams on a track, however I would say 2 or 3 teams (4-6 people) per location would be good.
That would be good, but given the time constraints, unlikely to happen for most locations, and especially unlikely for mine.. unless it manages to fall on my Sunday between 2 and 6pm. ;-)

No limit to amount of locations where the racing is being held. For this first event, the limit will be teamviewer (or alternative) limit. And even than we can keep track of what is happening. A Print Screen every 5 minutes would be good in any case.
For which we'll definitely need a spare person working the computer. This could be the track marshal at the moment. Those using wireless control can crash and dash. ;-)

Great, let the track plans and new racers come! And input of course. Grunz ?
 

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Circuit Owner
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I could make urethane tyres for all cars from the same batch of urethane if that helps. I already have moulds for the narrow and wide versions of the tyres used on Scaley GTs. Shore A50 should be about right for Sport track running for an hour or two.

One observation - ambient temperature and humidity makes a BIG difference to lap times. How will you manage that?

I'm interested. Could probably run 3 teams plus marshals and a web master.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
That is just great! I will pm you about the costs, see what we can do.
Humidity and temperature, yes, hard to find a solution except maybe a calculation afterwards? At least everyody should write down the values.
Cool, another country
 

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ParrotGod
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Hi All
If you have more than one team competing on the same site this can skew the overall results. If we are looking at temp and humidity as factors in the overall results, then drivers blocking each other and pit stops with a single pitlane surely will affect the overall results. Anyway, if you all want to go for it I am not against it.

As for tyres we should have all the same: Mr. Mod could you please PM me for costs to ship over in the Kiwilandia? I have only used scaley stock tyres so I will need some time with the one from Mr. Mod to see how cars behave. I would use my current layout for this testing (not the one we will agree on racing on).

Pacer cars can be marshalled as the other cars. I would say that each site with one single team should have at most 2 pacers per lane at constant speed and no lane change. However, if one site decides to have more than one team, then any additional team will replace one pacer (for instance: one team and two pacers; or two teams and one pacer; or three teams and no pacer).

man this is going to be epic...
 

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Greg Gaub
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I'm all for using tires from Mr Mod. I'll also need pricing for shipment to the US, but I've no idea how many sets I'll need. I might just order more than necessary for future use.


I like all the rules ideas so far, but I think changing drivers at EVERY pit stop might be a bit much, especially assuming you're including penalties and damage repair. Switching during refueling, and/or tire changes should be plenty for an endurance race, probably anywhere between 10 and 20 minutes per stint, depending on burn and wear rates.

I guess it's time to start with layout ideas. I respectfully request that they do not exceed 5x12-14 feet, as that's the usable area of my living room floor.
I could go longer if it's a narrow extension, but would rather not have track in the foyer.
. I'll post my portable track layout (sans racing line, plus pit lane) for your consideration. I can't actually make it with spare track, but it's good for the space I have.
 

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ParrotGod
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Since the tyres would becoming all the way from UK, I would also order for different cars: R8, vette, Mp12, evora. These are my favourite GT cars but I have not tested them without mags.

As for switching driver at pit stop, I was assuming that we had only the fuel simulation on. We said no track calls: so no damage/repair, right? Anyway, we could leave to each team to decide when to change driver. I am sure that each one would be eager to drive around.

Greg are you able to go up to16 feet? The layouts I suggested are around 5 meters in length. If it makes thing easier, let's use the layout for your portable track.
 

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You are right Gio, pit stops will only be for tyres and/or fuel. We will not use damage because we do not use track call.
Stop&Go yes, but from my experience, this will not happen a lot.

What I want to prevent is that teams stop switching drivers, because one of them is the better driver and besides that if you keep driving, you stay in the rhythm.
That's why I say every pit stop.

We have to decide if we only do tyres, or also fuel. For me we can do both, as in a real endurance. You have your teammate to help you with tyre status and fuel percentage, and I think strategy will play a big part.
For a 2hr race I prefer longer refueling/tyre change times because than your strategy has more impact. Than I propose tank size that will last about 20 minutes, and tyres that last a little longer (Hard)

Good idea about the lay out. I am also limited in space, It will be the living room too. 5x14 ft , I have to check, sounds good.

So the tyres will be the urethanes from Mr. Modifier. I propose to wait with the order until we have a date and a list of participants. In the meantime I will look for sponsors. Yes, this will be epic


So far;
(team names and cars/c-nrs follow)

The Netherlands, host Minardi

Team 1: Car (probably) Aston Martin DBR (Marcel,...)
Team 2: Car (probably) Audi R8 (...,.....)

USA, host Mr Flippant


Team 3: Car driver (Greg,...)
Team 4: Pacer

NZ, host Grunz

Team 5: Car diver (Gio, ...)
Team 6: Pacer

UK, host Mr Modifier

Team 7: Car , driver (Richard,...)
Team 8: Car, driver
Team 9: Car, driver

That is a nice starting grid !
 

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ParrotGod
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I like both options on (tyres and fuel). It's a pity for the weather...could Martin build a version of RCS just for this event such that the weather pattern will the same over the 2 hours across the globe??

In the meantime I have come up with another layout for 1.5m x 4.2m (5 x14 feet). I am limiting myself in terms of corners here trying to use as many as R2 as possible.



The length is: 17.46m for lane 1 and 17.95m for lane 2. Should give us a nice lap time.

If I am not able to get the urethanes from Mr. Modifier, could I use nsr tyres instead? As I said before I have never used third-party tyres so any suggestions are welcome.
 

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Damien Straw
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Hi All,

I just had an email from Gio about this. I'm certainly keen and will discuss it with Gio regarding possibly driving up for the event. So all going well, Kiwi No.2 is onboard!

I was thinking after reading through the post, having the same amount of teams on track at each location is probably crucial due to traffic and the bearing it'll have on the lap times. I don't think pace cars set to random will offer a good solution. At least a human driver won't change into your lane and take you out (ok, I know some do!). The other thing is that having a human driver to race against will keep you motivated and hungry to push it harder when you can't see the competitors overseas.

Cheers,
Damo.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,379 Posts
I'm getting a positive response from DRAWW members, so we might have good participation depending on time and location. With the spare track of those participating, we should be able to make any layout likely to be proposed, and other venues have been offered, so space might not be limited to my living room size. One member asked if he could just marshal and help, which I assume would be ok, though I did tell him that unless we have an odd number of people, he should race.


First off, would a S&G apply to every crash? If not, when does a S&G apply? If so, would the S&G require a driver change?

Switching drivers for every pit stop, including stop and go, would not be a good idea, IMHO. If you mean every fuel or tyre stop, and it's set up so that fuel and tyre wear will result in pit stops every 10-20 minutes, then that should be fine. I agree that each team member should drive half the time, and/or no more than 30 minutes at a time, or a similar rule to prevent one driver from doing all the driving.

I would prefer to run with fuel and tyres, but not weather because it cannot be coordinated between races. I assume track temp is also ignored if weather is disabled?

Gio, I like that layout, though R2 are not very plentiful therein.
That's OK, I don't think track will be an issue, as most of my guys have offered to donate track, even if they can't participate. I wouldn't mind buying a couple packs of R3 and R4 if needed, either.

Unfortunately, NSR tires are nothing like urethane tires, and can be easily treated to gain a high level of grip. Urethane tires cannot be treated to perform differently, are extremely easy to sand for tire truing, and have exceptional grip on Sport track for magless racing. For this kind of race, I think they're ideal. Silicone would also work, but are very HARD to true, and since we're using stock Scalextric cars, being able to true the tires will help everyone with wobbly rear wheels compete better.
 

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Greg Gaub
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QUOTE (Damo @ 17 Jan 2015, 15:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I was thinking after reading through the post, having the same amount of teams on track at each location is probably crucial due to traffic and the bearing it'll have on the lap times. I don't think pace cars set to random will offer a good solution. At least a human driver won't change into your lane and take you out (ok, I know some do!). The other thing is that having a human driver to race against will keep you motivated and hungry to push it harder when you can't see the competitors overseas.

I agree, ideally. As this is just a first time idea, I think encouraging participation is most important. There should be SOME kind of traffic to deal with, so any host with only one team should at least have one non-changing pacer per lane, maybe?

But, if it turns out that each site has two or more teams, it might not be worth worrying about. That said, a site with 6 teams would be at a distinct disadvantage to the sites with only 2 teams. The only solution I can think of is to add pace cars to sites with less teams.
 

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ParrotGod
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I would say that if in a given location there are three or more teams, then no pace car. Two teams, then one pace car. One team, two pace cars (one per lane. In any case, pace cars should not change lane at all. They have to be there to create traffic: for instance if you do no plan carefully to over take one your car can be slowed down behind it until next XLC. Personally I would be keen to have one team per location as you cannot really share the heath of the competition between the local teams with the rest of the teams in other locations.

S&G maybe should be enforced in location with more than a team when a contact happen. We could use track calls with damage points but only in case of one team for a given location: the rationale is that if more teams are in the same location and one calls the track call, the other team(s) will lose precious time compared with the teams in other locations. Of course, if RCS64 would support a global track call (stopping all the cars in every location) then this issue would be solved. Otherwise, I do not see how and when to enforce the S&G except for the false start. But not need to change driver in a S&G.
 

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ParrotGod
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Greg
of course you are right...there are not that many R2.
it is very good to hear that DRAWW members are in. If you guys could provide a list of pieces available for this then we can start making progress towards our final layout. The other information we need to pin is the layout area. I will host this in my garage where I have at most 570cm x 300cm.
In that area I was able to build my Portimao layout (you can see it in my signature)...maybe we could/should go for it? ;-)
 

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Greg Gaub
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I believe that S&G can be applied to any car during the race by pressing F1-6 according to what the car is that gets it. This was the previous version of RCS64, and I have not tested it with the new one. But, if a marshal has access to the PC (I'd use a wireless keyboard), they can easily reach over and press the appropriate key when someone comes off. If there are multiple marshals, they can call out the car that needs a penalty.

Now, I'm not saying that this is necessary, or that I even want it, just that I think it's possible to penalize a crasher without using track calls. I don't think there should be a track call of any kind, unless there is a massive failure of some kind, in which case all locations should pause the race. If we allow any site to have a track call that is not matched by other sites, we might end up with races taking an hour longer in some locations.

I'm personally in favor of stiff penalties for crashing. Going fast and crashing a lot will NOT win an endurance race of any kind. Racers should know that if they crash, it's only going to get worse, and the best way to win is to slow down a notch, and be consistent, and cool. Conserve tires, fuel, and the car itself... and you'll win.


As for track, I think we should not worry about it. I retract my suggestion of planning based on stock available. With the DRAWW members offering to contribute, and worst case needing a couple packs of track, I think it's more important to get a layout that will be good. Space is important, of course, but we might want to figure out the date and time sooner, so that everyone can know for sure where their race will be hosted. I'll have more room if the host with more space can participate, and less room if not.
 

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ParrotGod
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Just in case here is a version of Portimao to fill in a 572x245 cm area I was talking about.

Inside lane 2378cm, outside lane 2426cm.



just saying...
 

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You know I love Portimão


The VERY Good news;

Scorpius has offered prizes for the winning team!!! Details to follow, but believe me, VERY generous!


We will all use the same urethane tyres from Mr. Modifier. I will have contact about this with Richardhim, first see how many sets we need on which location.

A few things:

- 2 hour endurance race RCS64 with tyre wear and fuel load simulation.
- No track calls.
- Teams of 2 drivers
- If only 1 team, 1 constant speed pacer in inner lane (pit lane lane) is mandatory.
(maybe we should find a factor; ideally 3 teams = 1. 4 teams = amount of laps x 1,05 - I gues that will be too difficult)
- S&G can be applied without TC by using keyboard
- If S&G, drivers do not switch unless combined with fuel/tyre wear stop
- when to apply; pushing other car out. If other cars stays in, no S&G.
- drivers switch every pit stop (assuming tyres/fuel last at least 15 min.)
- I would stick with the 'living room' lay out unless we are 100% sure participating teams ALL have the space AND track pieces. But start with living room, the 17m. track of Gio is good for me to start with. In the end we can Always switch to plan B.
- Therefore it is important to set a date. 1 or 2 weeks before we know which teams/locations participate and decide to go big or not.

Ok, shoot. First, a date! Lets start with what month. March ?
 
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