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Greg Gaub
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Doesn't Google have a thing where multiple people can do video chat? We might be able to do that, and set our screen as the "video" output. I believe that may allow anyone to view any other race screen. Spectators may also be able to watch races. Though, it would be cool to have a web cam on the tracks.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
Checklist:
1) Date and time
Weekend. Can't really pick a particular day, because Saturday for me is Sunday for Mr. Kiwi. I can do a Friday morning, which would be Friday night for you, and Saturday morning for him. In any case, I'm sure something can be chosen using the thing he set up: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20150207&p1=22&p2=16&p3=234

2) Lay Out
Lay out should be exactly the same. Location of lane changers, pit lane (and length), borders.
I agree with your stipulations. Setting up the track continuity should be left to the host. If you're happy with no taps but your tracks are well crimped, that's fine by me. I'll probably go that route, though I do have two pieces I set up to jump power from near the bad to away from the base (though physically close) that I used for my party tracks, and would probably use.

For the layout, I can post a TrackPower file with my current stock of spare track, if anyone thinks it's helpful. It could be shared around so that each person removes stock they do NOT have, which should leave us with a file with stock we ALL have. Then we can all propose layouts from that stock?

3) Cars
My proposal Scalextric GT cars and name a few models (C-numbers)
Out of the box, no magnet, third party tyres, standard chip.
I think that pretty much covers it. I'd go with easily sourced urethane tires. They give good grip, and do not benefit from softening treatments. Allowing them to be glued and trued would get a big vote from me.

4) Event settings
Practice, Qualify
I'm not sure how this would even work? I figure, practice as much as you like. If not, then there should be a rule that one CANNOT practice until the designated time, so that the track is just as new to everyone racing.

Ideally, there should be at LEAST two cars on each track, even if one is a fixed speed pace car with random lane changing. It just wouldn't have the excitement if it were just one car running laps at each location. If there are more than one live driver on a track, let them decide where they grid. In the overall scheme, it shouldn't really matter much. In practice, unless there are 3 or more cars on the track, it won't matter at all.

Endurance (1 hr, 2hrs ?, ..)
Tyre wear (weather is random but you can use hard and soft without weather simulation)
I like the idea of weather, but we should be able to set it to 3 changes, and keep resetting until we all get the same, pre-determined pattern. The question is, will they change at the same time, or randomly?

Available sets of tyres - Depends on weather
Tyre change time - I have no preference
False start - That would be tricky, especially if we're trying to coordinate the start timing with internet lag. For RCS64, it's just a stop and go, rather than a restart like some other options, so I don't mind using false start detection.
Race end - I like it when all cars finish the lap they're on.
No track call (Marshalls). Yeah, it has to go without stopping. So that means I will definitely need a DRAWW member to participate.
Throttle profiles ( I would say no limit) - I agree. With RCS64, fuel burn is based on CAR speed, not Throttle level, so the profile should not effect fuel burn apart from giving the driver a curve that fits their style and car.
Brake setting (Dynamic/no brakes/button all allowed). For magless, I like dynamic brakes. If we go with stock Scaley GT and urethane tires, I'd want to use them. But, I have no problem letting people choose to use brakes or not. That said, with tire wear and weather and all that, I might go brakeless.

5) Racing Rules

-No contact ( we can check the new DiSCA rules, and/or the Scalextric WC rules)
Fine by me. As it's likely to be just one car (and maybe a pacer) on my track, this shouldn't have an effect on my race.

-Stop and Go (when to apply)
For contact?

I think the best would be to have at least 2 people at a track, they act as a team and switch during pit stop. When not racing, you marshall.
I agree. In this case, we also need to decide when drivers must, or may, switch. For example, ALL pit stops? After a certain number of crashes? Only refueling stops? Etc.

No limit to amount of teams on a track, however I would say 2 or 3 teams (4-6 people) per location would be good.
That would be good, but given the time constraints, unlikely to happen for most locations, and especially unlikely for mine.. unless it manages to fall on my Sunday between 2 and 6pm. ;-)

No limit to amount of locations where the racing is being held. For this first event, the limit will be teamviewer (or alternative) limit. And even than we can keep track of what is happening. A Print Screen every 5 minutes would be good in any case.
For which we'll definitely need a spare person working the computer. This could be the track marshal at the moment. Those using wireless control can crash and dash. ;-)
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
I'm all for using tires from Mr Mod. I'll also need pricing for shipment to the US, but I've no idea how many sets I'll need. I might just order more than necessary for future use.


I like all the rules ideas so far, but I think changing drivers at EVERY pit stop might be a bit much, especially assuming you're including penalties and damage repair. Switching during refueling, and/or tire changes should be plenty for an endurance race, probably anywhere between 10 and 20 minutes per stint, depending on burn and wear rates.

I guess it's time to start with layout ideas. I respectfully request that they do not exceed 5x12-14 feet, as that's the usable area of my living room floor.
I could go longer if it's a narrow extension, but would rather not have track in the foyer.
. I'll post my portable track layout (sans racing line, plus pit lane) for your consideration. I can't actually make it with spare track, but it's good for the space I have.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
I'm getting a positive response from DRAWW members, so we might have good participation depending on time and location. With the spare track of those participating, we should be able to make any layout likely to be proposed, and other venues have been offered, so space might not be limited to my living room size. One member asked if he could just marshal and help, which I assume would be ok, though I did tell him that unless we have an odd number of people, he should race.


First off, would a S&G apply to every crash? If not, when does a S&G apply? If so, would the S&G require a driver change?

Switching drivers for every pit stop, including stop and go, would not be a good idea, IMHO. If you mean every fuel or tyre stop, and it's set up so that fuel and tyre wear will result in pit stops every 10-20 minutes, then that should be fine. I agree that each team member should drive half the time, and/or no more than 30 minutes at a time, or a similar rule to prevent one driver from doing all the driving.

I would prefer to run with fuel and tyres, but not weather because it cannot be coordinated between races. I assume track temp is also ignored if weather is disabled?

Gio, I like that layout, though R2 are not very plentiful therein.
That's OK, I don't think track will be an issue, as most of my guys have offered to donate track, even if they can't participate. I wouldn't mind buying a couple packs of R3 and R4 if needed, either.

Unfortunately, NSR tires are nothing like urethane tires, and can be easily treated to gain a high level of grip. Urethane tires cannot be treated to perform differently, are extremely easy to sand for tire truing, and have exceptional grip on Sport track for magless racing. For this kind of race, I think they're ideal. Silicone would also work, but are very HARD to true, and since we're using stock Scalextric cars, being able to true the tires will help everyone with wobbly rear wheels compete better.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
QUOTE (Damo @ 17 Jan 2015, 15:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I was thinking after reading through the post, having the same amount of teams on track at each location is probably crucial due to traffic and the bearing it'll have on the lap times. I don't think pace cars set to random will offer a good solution. At least a human driver won't change into your lane and take you out (ok, I know some do!). The other thing is that having a human driver to race against will keep you motivated and hungry to push it harder when you can't see the competitors overseas.

I agree, ideally. As this is just a first time idea, I think encouraging participation is most important. There should be SOME kind of traffic to deal with, so any host with only one team should at least have one non-changing pacer per lane, maybe?

But, if it turns out that each site has two or more teams, it might not be worth worrying about. That said, a site with 6 teams would be at a distinct disadvantage to the sites with only 2 teams. The only solution I can think of is to add pace cars to sites with less teams.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
I believe that S&G can be applied to any car during the race by pressing F1-6 according to what the car is that gets it. This was the previous version of RCS64, and I have not tested it with the new one. But, if a marshal has access to the PC (I'd use a wireless keyboard), they can easily reach over and press the appropriate key when someone comes off. If there are multiple marshals, they can call out the car that needs a penalty.

Now, I'm not saying that this is necessary, or that I even want it, just that I think it's possible to penalize a crasher without using track calls. I don't think there should be a track call of any kind, unless there is a massive failure of some kind, in which case all locations should pause the race. If we allow any site to have a track call that is not matched by other sites, we might end up with races taking an hour longer in some locations.

I'm personally in favor of stiff penalties for crashing. Going fast and crashing a lot will NOT win an endurance race of any kind. Racers should know that if they crash, it's only going to get worse, and the best way to win is to slow down a notch, and be consistent, and cool. Conserve tires, fuel, and the car itself... and you'll win.


As for track, I think we should not worry about it. I retract my suggestion of planning based on stock available. With the DRAWW members offering to contribute, and worst case needing a couple packs of track, I think it's more important to get a layout that will be good. Space is important, of course, but we might want to figure out the date and time sooner, so that everyone can know for sure where their race will be hosted. I'll have more room if the host with more space can participate, and less room if not.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
I thought you might like that. ;-)

Rick, you have a formula for how many cars "fit" on a digital track. Something to do with number of lanes and running length. Can you share that here? Maybe it would be good to use it to determine how many (if any) pace cars should be present at each location.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
Sorry, weekend of March 7/8 is out for me. No possible way for me to race on that weekend. How about the previous or following weekends? I wouldn't mind sooner, but realize that planning may take some more time.

I'm confused about the tires. Is Minardi working out a deal of some kind, or will we be ordering for our locations separately?

I've got plenty of single lane curves in my spares. hehe.
I haven't asked yet, but I can probably borrow a box of borders from Alan Smith, as he often hosts away events on Scalextric track with borders. If he doesn't have anything happening during our event, I should be good for borders.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
I think getting the communication sorted out sooner would be best. I might need to use a different computer from my race computer, as my race one isn't very fast, and doing something like skype or google hangouts will probably cause problems for the race.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
QUOTE (Minardi @ 19 Jan 2015, 03:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Updated Checklist:
1) Date and time; Weekend March 15/16 March 16 08:00 Auckland time = March 15 19:00 Amsterdam) (*)

That would be fantastic for me! That puts it right in the middle of Saturday afternoon. I almost feel bad that it's such a great time for me.

Here's a URL that shows the other times for that slice of the weekend:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meet...2=16&p3=234
I'll ask the other guys who can attend at that time, but I'll assume it's not set in stone until other hosts agree.

QUOTE (Minardi @ 19 Jan 2015, 03:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>2) Lay Out
3) Cars
4) Event settings
5) Racing Rules

All good for me...

QUOTE (Minardi @ 19 Jan 2015, 03:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>WINNER: The team with the most laps. In case of equal amount of laps, qualify result decides the winner.

Doesn't RCS64 have a total race time? The tie breaker could be the total race time, which should show at least a small difference. If the total race time is exactly the same, then qually result could be a second tie breaker.

QUOTE (Minardi @ 19 Jan 2015, 05:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Route1Racing will kindly provide the tyres


SWEET! Thanks, MrMod!
I'm really looking forward to giving them some run time.


QUOTE (GRUNZ @ 19 Jan 2015, 10:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>- why no pit sensors?
- do we enforce a minimum number of team members? let's say each team must have a minimum number of 2 members?
- Which is the Minimum Room Size and the track pieces that are available to all the members?
- Are we going to use realtime information through TeamViewer/Skype using the sharing desktop features or just updating a thread on the RCS-64 forum with screenshots?

I don't know Marcel's reasoning, but I don't have pit sensors to install on a temp track. Also, they can be problematic when the pit lane is short and cars waggle when entering. I'd rather just pull off the track and take care of things using buttons. I don't think the sensors will be as big a need in this situation, especially as most of us will not be "accidentally" performing pit activities on the track.


I think a team min of 2 is pretty reasonable. I'd say max 3, if not 2. Some groups may be able to field a 5 man team, which wouldn't be very fair to the smaller teams.

I like the idea of Chris being a "master of ceremonies" and overall race controller. I would be fine giving him remote control of my track computer so that he can pause the race or something if a world-wide pause is needed. Also, being able to do screen grabs and updates and such would be pretty slick if one person did them all. Since he wouldn't be racing or mashaling, he can be the Murray Walker of this event (though actually describing the racing would be cool, I'm not implying he needs to). I should be able to set up a web cam using my spare phone, but I'm not sure what's the best service to use for that, and if it can do so into a group thing.

Speaking of which, does anyone know, or have experience with, a video conference calling service that would allow spectators to join and toggle/switch between the different "speakers" (video feeds) of the event? That would be a cool way of doing it.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
I think I'd go with 2hr first choice, then 3, and finally 4 as my least preferred time. That's a LOT of racing. I realize it's an endurance, and I won't bow out if it's 4 hours, but as a first attempt at this, and likely to run into some technical issues of some kind, a short race of two hours should be plenty.

I'm glad MrMod recommended glue and true for his tires. I've found that when wheels aren't perfect, it's a waste of time to true without gluing because the tire will shift around and get out of true again. Also, thanks for recommending sealing the front tires. I prefer doing that as well.

I'm fine with stock braids, but recommend that everyone have a few prepared sets on hand for a quick swap out. IMHO, all work on cars should be done before the race, or while the race is in progress. If there are any race pauses or stoppages of ANY kind, cars will remain on the track, and cannot be attended to until the race resumes. That means tire cleaning, braid changing, should take place under green.

I disagree that spare cars should be available for a quick swap. That's counter to endurance racing. Spare PARTS should be available, such as braids and chips, and maybe have a hot iron nearby in case a motor fails or wiring breaks. But if a car fails, it get repaired, not replaced. Actual failures are a part of endurance racing, and cars should be repaired while the race is in progress. Yes, it really sucks when something fails, but that's how it is. Prep your car to ensure high endurance, and repair under green if needed.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
QUOTE (zarko @ 20 Jan 2015, 08:54) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However, as this is a first attempt at this, I would suggest that for the first event ONLY replacement car is allowed as I have no doubt we will all run into some difficulties.

You might not have meant it this way, but I would say that I'd much rather swap out a pair of worn braids, or even a failed chip, than to change to a different car unless I had no other choice. Having to learn the performance of a different car, even if it was the same model and prepped the same way, could be more detrimental than the time taken for a minor repair or worn braid replacement. If everyone else wants to allow a spare car to be swapped in, I'm fine with that, but I won't agree that replacing the entire car should be the only option, if that's what you meant.

If a car replacement is allowed, we should make clear rules about when a replacement may be used, how many replacements are allowed, and whether repairing the original car and swapping it back out should be allowed. Personally, I believe that the car should only be replaced if the original cannot be made to move under it's own power with basic things like replacing the braid or chip, and that the replacement car is the "last" car available. The original car is not permitted to be repaired and re-entered in the race, and if the replacement car also fails, then another replacement cannot be used. For the team to continue, the replacement car must be repaired and run to the finish. I think it should be more or less up to the team whether they want to swap in their replacement car, but once that decision has been made, they must stick with it until the end. Essentially, they are determining that the original car is beyond repair and cannot continue to race, therefore the replacement is the only option to finish the race. This basically gives each team a "second chance" to finish the race, in case of catastrophic car failure.

Anyone want to compile a list of allowed cars, and their Scalextric codes?
 

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Greg Gaub
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+ Ferrari F430 and Jaguar XKR GT3.
Almost said Mercedes, but that's inline with front motor, so gearing and speed would differ too much. I agree the sidewinder configuration should be spec.

I suggest that we specify that some endurance setup practices are allowed/recommended, such as gluing in the motor, putting the ferrite man on leads, and gluing in axles bushings, not to mention proper lubrication.

Min weight is good. When DRAWW last ran these cars, we speced 90g-100g, so that people couldn't overweight their cars. Some cars are lighter than others, so a min of 95 might be high, but the rules should say weight cannot be removed from the car (such as by cutting plastic out of the interior or chassis), if it doesn't already. This can fall under the "box stock" condition of the car, but sometimes these things need to be said.

Has anyone looked into GoToMeeting for this? I was reminded of it by a radio ad, but I'm figuring the good stuff won't be free.
 

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Greg Gaub
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Is there a Porsche GT3 that comes as DPR? I think a stock DPR chip is part of the spec. Most Ford GT are also not DPR, though I think a recent, or upcoming version is?
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
Tracking spare car laps would be difficult, so I think a limited number of times it can be on the track in place of the primary car would be my preference regarding that idea.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
QUOTE (Minardi @ 20 Jan 2015, 22:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Race length/Spare car
I suggest each team has a spare car ready. It is up to the team to decide if they want to repair the original car, but once a spare car is on track, It should finish the race.

No surprise that I like that suggestion.


QUOTE (Minardi @ 20 Jan 2015, 22:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Cars
*REMARK* For me No DPR would be allowed, the older Aston Martins are not DPR. This would allow also the Ford GT and Porsche. Agree ?

I'm fine with that. The spec for the chip would need to be broadened, but limited to stock (non-uprated) chips, IMHO.

QUOTE (Minardi @ 20 Jan 2015, 22:41) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>My idea was to have 2 or 3 lay outs with the same track pieces and only decide the day before (Friday 13) what layout It will be, to prevent people practice for days and days on the lay out of the official race.

I like that idea, too.

Also not mentioned was that some people have modded APBs. It's not possible for us to use stock power supplies and have them work as normal. We can, however, turn our variable power supplies to a particular voltage. It would be good to have some expert input on this, so that those with the high-power mod can get the most appropriate voltage to be equivalent to those with stock power supplies. Rich? Colin?

QUOTE (Mr Modifier @ 21 Jan 2015, 05:21) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I don't own any high detail DPR cars!!! Our digital club runs a DPR class and they are all super-resistant due to the intense nature of our racing

Why can we not simply weight our cars up to the minimum weight? Happy to make sure 5g is placed high to compensate for the lack of interior.

I like that idea. When we raced them, we allowed this for those who did not have a high detail car. Although lights were not required, some installed them anyway. I think as long as the car meets the weight requirement, and all other specs, the actual level of detail is less important. One could argue that a detailed interior and a bunch of lead on the chassis makes for vastly different car performances, but for this first foray into the idea, that might be picking nits. I suggest, though, that cars be photographed, body off (showing inside of body and chassis) both before and after the race, with a decent camera, and the photos uploaded to a shared location, or posted to a thread. It will be interesting to see the details of cars that win (or lose).

QUOTE (Mr Modifier @ 21 Jan 2015, 05:34) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Would like to see a few more borders otherwise overtaking will be limited to pit stops.

I think the idea is to have borders on the outside of all turns, if possible. Either scaley or home made. I think he just showed those where track was getting close, to make sure he had room for borders where needed.
 

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Greg Gaub
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16,603 Posts
Putting the ferrite man on leads means to add wire between the guide and the ferrite man. Having to repair a broken ferrite man's leg is something that can, and should be avoided, and is best done by adding an inch or so of soft silicone wire between it and the rotating guide blade that causes the ferrite man legs to fatigue and break.
 
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