[chris99]

NSR car + APB + Analogue = kangaroo hops at minimum speed & pulsing at higher speeds
NSR car + any other car on the track in the same lane at the same + APB + Analogue = normal driving

What's going on here - does anybody else have motor pulsing problems with NSRs? They've both got stock Evo King 21400 rpm motors in anglewinder.
I know the APB analogue mode sends power in pulses but the problem only occurs with NSR; now I have a new NSR car which does exactly the same thing - I only have two. The cars work fine with an old analogue transformer & also with a 9v battery.

Here's the strange bit, whilst testing with the APB, by mistake I put another car on the same lane and the NSR started going normally - this happened no matter what other brand or type, with or without chips, and amazingly if I put the other NSR car on the same lane at the same they both run normally - no pulsing at all?

Have I got a unique problem or it something to do with NSR motors or sine waves or some other electrical phasing gobbledygook?

Cheers
Chris

 

[Richard TB]

Do you have the ferite man installed at the motor and at the pickup. Sounds like you maybe getting some interfierence.

 

[chris99]

QUOTE (Richard TB @ 14 Jan 2012, 16:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Do you have the ferrite man installed at the motor and at the pickup. Sounds like you maybe getting some interference.
No, there aren't any ferrite men - not sure if any of my other cars don't have them. If it's that why does it disappear when the 2 NSR's are both on the track?
Chris

 

[MrFlippant]

Your base is not unique. Different motors respond to the pulsed signal differently. NSR are probably the worst, but slot.it do it too to some extent. You notice it on almost every car at high speeds if you lift the rear and hold the car while gunning it.

I'd never heard of the problem going away when two cars are on the track, though. I'm sure there's an electrical explanation for that. I don't think ferrite men will help, but a bridge rectifier might. Got any drift cars? You could test putting the NSR motor in them (if it will fit), or putting the rectifier into the NSR chassis (body probably won't fit on at the same time) just to see what happens.

I keep forgetting about this issue since I still use my C7030 PB-Pro SH on my track. Its analog is super smooth. Next time I think about switching to the APB, I'll have to remember this problem. I wonder if it can be addressed in firmware?

 

[Richard TB]

I am not an electrical engineering so I quite possibly could be talking out of my you know where! My feeling is that if the problem is going away when another car is placed on the track then perhaps the second car is acting as a capacitor and cleaning the power signal enough for the NSR motor to behave itself. So I still think a capacitor maybe worth a try..
Would some one who knows more about electronics speak up before I make a total idiot of myself...PLEASE!

 

[shaunbmx]

Interesting, was planning getting APB, pretty soon.

BUT i would be running several NSR and Slot.it cars in analogue mode so thats not looking good. Any more info on this issue.?

Shaunbmx

 

[chris99]

Shaunmbx, Yes I hope a bright spark can provide a solution. I don' know why no-one has raised this problem before. I've at least one car from most brands and NSR is the only one with a severe problem. Maybe NSR techies will be able to help. Regarding other brands, you don't really notice any pulsing; Slot its are fine - you just need to dial down the power on the APB to improve fine control.
And, don't let it put you off the APB, it's a great reliable bit of kit but digital is its main raison d'etre. However, £500 to chip all my current cars though is over the top; wiring in two switchable powerbases is possible or just swapping them but that would be a pain and the APB power control and lap timing functions in particular have become indispensable

I don't really want to play with soldering/desoldering bridge rectifiers/ferrite men unless it's sure this will solve the problem - these cars ain't cheap so I don't like to mess with them unnecessarily.

Cheers
Chris

 

[injectorman]

This normally happens when the current draw is too much is big motors but youve added another car and it disappears. Weird. The next thing to figure out is it just your powerbase or all?

 

[chris99]

Some short videos to show exactly what I'm talking about.

This one shows the pulsing and the smoothing effect of adding a second car

This one shows the same but going round the track (in pacer mode)

And finally a close up of the pulsing at different controller settings

To anticipate the next question, yes it's the same pulsing if I disconnect the APB from the rest of the track so it's not the lane changers interfering.

Any ideas? Can someone else with an APB try and a recent unmodded NSR try it in analogue mode?

Chris

 

[injectorman]

That's exactly what PWM controllers do when the current draw is too high but with one car that's unlikely if the new APB is 8A. Or maybe in analogue mode it puts out less? Or simply your unit is faulty like a cold solder joint.

 

[chris99]

QUOTE (injectorman @ 15 Jan 2012, 14:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Another test, what if you start the motor up slowly and then increase revs? If it doesn't it suggests simply not enough power. Those motors draw a fair amount on start up maybe 4A or more.
Yep, that's in the third video - the frequency of the pulsing increases with the speed and doesn't disappear. In fact the top speed is so fast with NSRs & Slot its that I run it at 75% so enough power seems to be getting through.
On the possibility of a cold solder joint, I did re-solder the wire to one track which broke away when I took the back off the APB and this was before I learnt to solder properly and just let the solder drip off the iron. But that was only one track and the problem is not track dependent.

 

[injectorman]

Yup I edited after I seen the other video. Perhaps cold solder joint in the PB itself. Either way I wonder if others have the same issue or just yours? Either way I'd take it back.

 

[chris99]

QUOTE (injectorman @ 15 Jan 2012, 15:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Either way I wonder if others have the same issue or just yours? Either way I'd take it back.
Hmm, the APB works perfectly will all my other cars including Slot it (21500rpm) & Ninco (20000rpm) so I am still suspicious of the NSR motor compatibility with the APB.

 

[MrFlippant]

Rick, he put TWO NSR cars on the same lane, and they both smoothed out. If it were an amp draw problem, that would have made it worse. It's not an amp problem, and it's not a cold solder joint. There's nothing special or broken about his APB. It happens on mine, and I can all but guarantee it happens on every other APB out there. The problem is that most people aren't running NSRs on an APB in analog mode to see this happen. Apparently, this includes Riko Rocket, Rich G, and Andrew Wallace. Or, they don't feel that this is an issue worth worrying about, they're busy with other things, or I'm completely off base and my APB is also defective.

 

[Mr_DJT]

as i'm not sure how the apb works, could it be the base is trying to push more amps to the track than the car can handle? if so then this would explain why 2 cars work ok.
or even voltage, the care may be ok at 12 but not at 15
What power supply are you using?

 

[chris99]

QUOTE (Mr_DJT @ 15 Jan 2012, 17:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>as i'm not sure how the apb works, could it be the base is trying to push more amps to the track than the car can handle? if so then this would explain why 2 cars work ok.
or even voltage, the care may be ok at 12 but not at 15
What power supply are you using?
Hi Mr DJT,
2 stock 15v Scalextric units: 1*C7032 (European plug) & 1*C7024 (UK). Nothing is modded in the whole setup and I see the same problem with one or both power blocs connected.

Chris

 

[MrFlippant]

I don't think amps work that way.
It's probably to do with the PWM frequency that the base puts out for analog mode. Some cars are fine with it, some you can barely notice it, and some act like NSR cars. Probably the more torque-y the motor, the more the problem will be evident. Ideally, the frequency or some other part of the PWM signal can be altered in firmware to work with NSR cars better.

 

[injectorman]

This reminds me of PhilR's problem with another brand, albeit in digital mode. Although not stuttering the Ninco PB would heat up Scaley motors so hot the chassis melts and the motors fall out. Funnily enough he used NSR motors to overcome this.

Rick

 

[Martyn_]

Chris, I just went and tried mine and she ran perfectly.

It's an NSR 917K, picked it up 22nd Dec last year. Ran in analogue mode on SSDC v5.2.1.0 using wired throttles.
The only speed variations in the vid are either me jumping the frogs on the XLCs or just being incompetent at throttle control. The damn thing was crawling and felt smooth as you like.
It's normally a 4.5 second lap, I managed a 23s+ lap there for you.

Wish me luck, not embedded youtube on this site before!

 

[chris99]

QUOTE (snurfen @ 15 Jan 2012, 21:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Chris, I just went and tried mine and she ran perfectly.
It's an NSR 917K, picked it up 22nd Dec last year. Ran in analogue mode on SSDC v5.2.1.0 using wired throttles.
Thanks a lot Snurfen for taking the time to do the video. I see though it has a different motor according to the NSR site - Shark 20k sidewinder which has 20000 rpm whereas my two cars have a King Evo 21 anglewinder which has 21400 rpm. I don't know if that matters - do you have any other NSRs with a King Evo motor?

Cheers
Chris