SlotForum banner

Kangaroos hops with NSR cars in APB analogue

3733 Views 41 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  Crazy Iwan

NSR car + APB + Analogue = kangaroo hops at minimum speed & pulsing at higher speeds
NSR car + any other car on the track in the same lane at the same + APB + Analogue = normal driving

What's going on here - does anybody else have motor pulsing problems with NSRs? They've both got stock Evo King 21400 rpm motors in anglewinder.
I know the APB analogue mode sends power in pulses but the problem only occurs with NSR; now I have a new NSR car which does exactly the same thing - I only have two. The cars work fine with an old analogue transformer & also with a 9v battery.

Here's the strange bit, whilst testing with the APB, by mistake I put another car on the same lane and the NSR started going normally - this happened no matter what other brand or type, with or without chips, and amazingly if I put the other NSR car on the same lane at the same they both run normally - no pulsing at all?

Have I got a unique problem or it something to do with NSR motors or sine waves or some other electrical phasing gobbledygook?

See less See more
1 - 17 of 42 Posts
QUOTE (Richard TB @ 14 Jan 2012, 16:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Do you have the ferrite man installed at the motor and at the pickup. Sounds like you maybe getting some interference.
No, there aren't any ferrite men - not sure if any of my other cars don't have them. If it's that why does it disappear when the 2 NSR's are both on the track?
Shaunmbx, Yes I hope a bright spark(y) can provide a solution. I don' know why no-one has raised this problem before. I've at least one car from most brands and NSR is the only one with a severe problem. Maybe NSR techies will be able to help. Regarding other brands, you don't really notice any pulsing; Slot its are fine - you just need to dial down the power on the APB to improve fine control.
And, don't let it put you off the APB, it's a great reliable bit of kit but digital is its main raison d'etre. However, £500 to chip all my current cars though is over the top; wiring in two switchable powerbases is possible or just swapping them but that would be a pain and the APB power control and lap timing functions in particular have become indispensable

I don't really want to play with soldering/desoldering bridge rectifiers/ferrite men unless it's sure this will solve the problem - these cars ain't cheap so I don't like to mess with them unnecessarily.

Some short videos to show exactly what I'm talking about.

This one shows the pulsing and the smoothing effect of adding a second car

This one shows the same but going round the track (in pacer mode)

And finally a close up of the pulsing at different controller settings

To anticipate the next question, yes it's the same pulsing if I disconnect the APB from the rest of the track so it's not the lane changers interfering.

Any ideas? Can someone else with an APB try and a recent unmodded NSR try it in analogue mode?

See less See more
QUOTE (injectorman @ 15 Jan 2012, 14:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Another test, what if you start the motor up slowly and then increase revs? If it doesn't it suggests simply not enough power. Those motors draw a fair amount on start up maybe 4A or more.
Yep, that's in the third video - the frequency of the pulsing increases with the speed and doesn't disappear. In fact the top speed is so fast with NSRs & Slot its that I run it at 75% so enough power seems to be getting through.
On the possibility of a cold solder joint, I did re-solder the wire to one track which broke away when I took the back off the APB and this was before I learnt to solder properly and just let the solder drip off the iron. But that was only one track and the problem is not track dependent.
QUOTE (injectorman @ 15 Jan 2012, 15:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Either way I wonder if others have the same issue or just yours? Either way I'd take it back.
Hmm, the APB works perfectly will all my other cars including Slot it (21500rpm) & Ninco (20000rpm) so I am still suspicious of the NSR motor compatibility with the APB.
QUOTE (Mr_DJT @ 15 Jan 2012, 17:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>as i'm not sure how the apb works, could it be the base is trying to push more amps to the track than the car can handle? if so then this would explain why 2 cars work ok.
or even voltage, the care may be ok at 12 but not at 15
What power supply are you using?
Hi Mr DJT,
2 stock 15v Scalextric units: 1*C7032 (European plug) & 1*C7024 (UK). Nothing is modded in the whole setup and I see the same problem with one or both power blocs connected.

QUOTE (snurfen @ 15 Jan 2012, 21:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Chris, I just went and tried mine and she ran perfectly.
It's an NSR 917K, picked it up 22nd Dec last year. Ran in analogue mode on SSDC v5.2.1.0 using wired throttles.
Thanks a lot Snurfen for taking the time to do the video. I see though it has a different motor according to the NSR site - Shark 20k sidewinder which has 20000 rpm whereas my two cars have a King Evo 21 anglewinder which has 21400 rpm. I don't know if that matters - do you have any other NSRs with a King Evo motor?

Just done a bit more testing and it appears that with two cars on the same track, whilst it smooths out the power at the low speeds, at full throttle it's still pulsing noticeably and it also makes the non NSR car pulse at the same rate which it doesn't so much when the NSR is not on the track.
See less See more
QUOTE (snurfen @ 16 Jan 2012, 01:24) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Got some mates coming over tomorrow for a thrash, so will check who's got what and ask them to bring any Shark cans along if they have them.
Thanks, but it's not the Sharks, it's the King Evos they need to bring.

QUOTE (MrFlippant @ 16 Jan 2012, 00:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Chris, I bet if you put the car on backwards (wheels up), that the pulsing will be different. For me, some cars that had pulsing one way, had NONE in reverse. Some cars that had none going forward, had pulsing in reverse. And of course, some just had different amounts of pulsing, as well as many cars which exhibited no pulsing whatsoever at any power and either direction.
Tested mine at low speed and I couldn't detect any noticeable differences in the pulsing directionwise or trackwise. Did you do it with the controller or the pacer mode?

QUOTE (MrFlippant @ 16 Jan 2012, 00:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I remember this issue from a long time ago, after the APB first came out, and I would swear is was more pronounced. Though my memory could be exaggerated. This is the same unit I had back then, and the only change has been time, and the firmware. Therefore I cannot say if my motors are simply run in more, my base has "aged well" or the firmware upgrades have attempted to address this issue. As I've seen no mention of it from Andy at any time, I think it's likely the former than the latter.
I don't think I have 0.84 firmware available but I'll flash back to 0.85 & report back - I'm assuming going backwards ain't gonna bork my APB?

QUOTE (MrFlippant @ 16 Jan 2012, 00:48) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>So what is the solution? I have no idea. Putting a lesser motor in the car would remove half the niceness of the car's performance. Getting a replacement APB is no guarantee that the problem will be less, and it could be worse. You could chip the car, but I guess it's possible that some chips will have the same frequency? You could go pure analog for analog cars, but that's a major hassle. You could go to a C7030 with Simple-H, but then you'd lose a lot of nice features you might already be enjoying.
My feelings too. And I think you could have two PBs with a switch but that's not ideal with more wires and shorting risks. Still I suppose analogue is an added extra that we're lucky to have at all.

Many thanks for all the testing & soldering MrF - as you say, hopefully someone will be able to come up with some informed technical help. Are there Any Scalextric contractors out there who created the APB who could comment although it was probably a Korean or Chinese outfit that did it but maybe Adrian Norman could get in touch with them?

See less See more
QUOTE (awallace @ 16 Jan 2012, 08:49) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I am aware of a slight "pulsing" in analog, but have never seen anything as pronounced as the videos show. I would be surprised if going back to older firmwares would make any difference, as I haven't changed the analog code much. What would be interesting would be if there is any marked difference in SNC mode (i.e. computer connected vs screen connected). It would help isolate the issue a little, if firmware can do anything.

Hi there,
I tried this yesterday and set the max speed to low and still got the same pulsing. It defaulted to digital when I restarted with the computer attached but I managed to switch it to analogue with the 3 finger trick.
I'm wondering if this extreme pulsing is linked to a errant component in my APB which exaggerates it? Hopefully, someone with a King Evo motor can confirm one way or the other.

Thanks a million Martyn, I owe you one - shame you're too far away to collect it

I guess my APB is at fault then - just out of guarantee
... Riko, Adrian Scalextric Norman

Still it's saved me some money as I won't be buying any more NSRs. They didn't even acknowledge my email with this problem.

Let me know when you see another nice car and I'll see if I can find something that needs testing
. Afraid all my Slot its still work like a dream (except missing the lap counting sensor with all that power under the bonnet but that's another story).

See less See more
QUOTE (MrFlippant @ 1 Feb 2012, 19:18) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I still don't think your base is "faulty" just because Martyn is lucky enough to have one that doesn't pulse at the same frequency ours do. I bet if everyone with an APB had an NSR car, and we did a poll to found out how many had noticeable pulsing at any speed, the majority would report that they did. Yours happens to be pronounced at all speeds, which really sucks.
Oh, and regarding your cars, if they have chips, see if there's a bit too much wire/solder on the chip that's holding it up off the chassis floor. If the LED is being held up away from the floor too much, it might not be registering. Getting it closer and/or opening up the hold a bit for the LED might cure the lap count problems.

The pulsing really only causes problems at the cusp of power-on where it surges from nothing to quite a lot even at 75% power. Once going, I'm continually pumping the throttle and running without dynamic brakes so this hides it at higher speeds but the Vette is a bit worse than the Mosler. If I really want to indulge a smooth blast round the track I can connect my 30 year old analog transformer and the classic/sports track converter - the old controller is weird but driveable.

Slot it was a bit of a throw away comment and they are not chipped (thanks for the offer GregK all the same) but as you both have taken the time to reply here's why:
I've got a Toyota 88C which is perfect over the sensors, but the Ford GT40 is light at the front and has a floating guide although it is quite deep and should cut the beam - maybe I should trim the long original braids as they are holding it up a bit. But probably, the real problem is I've only got one straight before it, so I need to turn the track round (as I want to keep the wires & gubbins in that corner of the room) and put it at the end of the long straight, but that may not work as I've now put 4 new sweeping R4 curves there so my foot is still down.

In fact I keep all my nice & more expensive cars for analogue magless solo or social driving and to keep the chip and damage bill down. The digital cars are mostly the Scalextric with magnets for high speed racing, which my son demands
. I can't even follow it with my old eyes but at least the wireless controllers enable me to stand back & choose the optimum position - wireless rocks!

Sorry for the rambling - just thinking aloud

See less See more
Yes so do, especially for power slides, but I must admit to still keeping one eye on lap times most of the time. I even put the newly 1.07 reactivated APB beep on as it's still a novelty.

I did put a bit of tungsten putty (overpriced Slot it stuff) behind the guide and it didn't help - I think I'll trim the braids.
Just an update really and to take NSR out of the frame.

I've just got a kit with the 3 Scalextric motors 20K, 25k & 30k.
The 20k runs fine but the 25K & 30k have the same pronounced hopping at minimum revs as the King Evo. Same goes for a couple of other 24K cars I've recently aquired. So it's definitely the powerbase and I'll now write to Hornby.

It still seems strange that if I put another car on the track at the same time as the the high RPM, they run as smooth as (Snurfen's) butter. So, I could tape a spare motor to the pit lane to be able to use the high RPM cars in casual mode.

Oh and Salvatore of NSR did reply eventually and offered to send a car with a different motor, but I'd just got the Scaley motors and see the problem is related to higher RPM motors and not NSRs.

Rich, they're pure analogue cars with no chip. -NSR, Team Slot, Spirit and the Scaley 25 & 30k motors unmounted.

Also, I haven't tested the motors in digital, by installing a chip, as it would probably blow the chip and I don't have a slot it chip.

All my chipped cars are stock 18k Scalextric and these run fine in analogue mode (at least those not yet upgraded to ICP which removes analogue).

Edit: oops wrong forum but I'll leave it for future reference

Just to end the story which found a fix (but not the reason) in another thread - I now have NSR & other high rpm cars going "smooth as butter" in analogue mode by just adding a 104M brown capacitor to the rails(also works if I add the cap directly to the motors).

Thanks to all especially Snurfen & MrFlippant for their testing.

So, it looks like a one-off related to something playing up in my APB, but maybe the solution will help another lost soul who finds the same problem.


PS No thanks go to Hornby customer service who totally ignored my email a couple of months ago. Bit surprising as I've only heard stories of good service and quick replacement of defective items from other posts.
See less See more
1 - 17 of 42 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.