Kyosho?

Tire size will play a role; I especially like the 20 tooth gear, so many times I have had issues with wheel size being very close to the gear size in this scale. so much so that on very small cars I have had to run HO gears. The lower gear ratio should yield a quicker acceleration, so any decrease in speed will only be noticeable on high speed sections & long straights & honestly on my track my straight is not long enough to hit top speed anyway!

I can see on Peters track, with his long straights, he might opt for the high speed motor, but it might be too much in the twisty bits!?

Peter can drive, Mas!
HPR's main straight is 14+'. The back straight, for the road course is 11+'. The rest of the course is technical. SCX & Carrera cars are geared just right.
With RS and, especially the new Fyrebox motors at 30K RPM, we do not change the gear ratios, as the added torque is the main benefit of the hotter motors. We run stock magnets, lowered.
Having said all this, the point is top speed is not that important it's how fast you get away from the last corner with slot cars. The low RPM of the Kyosho will be slower for our use w/the stock motor.

QUOTE (loosesalute @ 19 Nov 2011, 22:04) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Rolannd.
The cars are retailing in England at £23 for a road car & £26 for a liveried sports car. That`s not a bad price for the quality.
I`ve got the pre-order in for our club to run a series.
Cheers
Kev.

Well, GBP 26 is $ 41 - not cheap nevertheless. And please don´t try to tell me that a slotcar chassis MUST have a motor mount that rises the centre of gravity as the one in the Kyosho models does, and that a LeMans car MUST have a clearance of an SUV.

So taking these things apart - what´s left ? A well detailed bodyshell, four wheels ( which I would replace by aluminum wheels ) a guide, wire.
To me the only really interesting thing is the body.

As to the comparison of the various motors - if we take motors with dimensions as Kyosho does, regardless of things like c.o.g., simple flat interior , clear windows - why not taking the tiny strap motors then, which are used in ISRA 1/32nd F1 and Eurosports ? Then we had reached the final point of possible power and the motors would even lay flat in the chassis...Well, the price of the model would rise a bit, but - nothing should be considered too good for our hobby ...
Finally we could install the strongest possible traction magnets, drill the power pack wires together and go fishing, while our cars would make circles.

To me there is way too much euphoria because of a product that is professionally produced, but in no way anything progressive or new regarding to slotcar technique or slotracing in general - on the contrary, reduces some old, experienced priciples of slotcar technics to absurdity.

If motors have to be as strong as possible, use a bigger scale. I suggest accepting that 43rd scale is smaller than 32nd and thus you can´t expect the same speed, handling, traction etc. Let´s take a challenge and try to build a Shadow DN4 or any other CanAm in 43rd scale - something Kyosho will never be able to offer with that toyish way to build somewhat called a slotcar chassis - and something one won´t be able to do using Kyosho parts as well.

Roland

I am not sure what the travelis on the suspension, but for giggles lets say it's 1/8", then you will need a minimum of 1/8" clearence on the bottom to keep from bottoming out! 1/8" Looks like allot on a 1/43 car, but it's nothing compared to a Carrera GO! car, alsoit's about the minimum you can go and keep the nose and tail from dragging in banked turns!

Important thing to remember when talking about 1/43 is that many of the, standard "rules or thumb" you may be familiar with from 1/32, 1/24 or even HO go straight out the window for reasons you can't even imagine until you have tried it and beat yor head against the wall a few times!

QUOTE (mudchukka @ 21 Nov 2011, 00:03) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Great to hear all the views on these cars good and bad.......

.......As you can see by the chassis you can adjust the height of the body so no SUV clearance unless you are going off road.

Mudchukka

It seems that there is something I don´t understand - maybe a linguistic problem ( I´m not native English ) :

What has "...adjust the height of the body..." to do with the clearance of the chassis ?

Roland

I would be interested in getting any exact info about how low the chassis ( not the body) can be adjusted. Besides that - the front doesn´t seem to be adjustable.
Ah yes - what is the use of that aquarium around the rear axle ? Additional weight ?

To me it doesn´t seem to have been developed by or with the help of slotracers.

If you know KYOSHO you know that they sometimes tend to complicate things a bit that are to be solved much more straightforwardly. See these models as well as some of their R/C items.

Roland

QUOTE (masmojo @ 21 Nov 2011, 06:43) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>1/8" ....................... it's about the minimum you can go and keep the nose and tail from dragging in banked turns!

Important thing to remember when talking about 1/43 is that many of the, standard "rules or thumb" you may be familiar with from 1/32, 1/24 or even HO go straight out the window for reasons you can't even imagine until you have tried it and beat yor head against the wall a few times!

Could you please explain that a bit more - I´m not able to understand it : 1/8" is the minimum 43rd scale clearance not to drag in bankings...As long as I race on tracks with bankings I have learned that the clearance has to be in a certain relation to the curvature of the banking. How else could H0 chassis go through any banking without dragging ? They don´t have 1/8" clearance. The other precondition in my opinion is the wheelbase. Same curvature, longer wheelbase, more clearance - and vice versa.

I think your statement is a bit generalized.

Roland

QUOTE (Schackel @ 21 Nov 2011, 17:32) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Could you please explain that a bit more - I´m not able to understand it : 1/8" is the minimum 43rd scale clearance not to drag in bankings...As long as I race on tracks with bankings I have learned that the clearance has to be in a certain relation to the curvature of the banking. How else could H0 chassis go through any banking without dragging ? They don´t have 1/8" clearance. The other precondition in my opinion is the wheelbase. Same curvature, longer wheelbase, more clearance - and vice versa.

I think your statement is a bit generalized.

Roland

Yes, a bit generalized and the 1/8" was pulled out of my hat as an example. BUT If you take certain SCX Compact 1/43 cars and run them on a Carrera GO! track with banking many times the front spoiler will drag the inside front edge. The GO! Banking is quite steep and tight, but their cars have distorted noses and tails to keep them from dragging on their banked turns and their loop tracks, other manufacturers are not bound by these restrictions and tend to keep their body shapes more like their 1:1 brethren!

My point was mearly that these are not flat, pan chassied cars they do have a suspension (in the back) so a certain amount of ground clearence needs to be built in! That amount of clearence might seem excessive coming from someone used to other scales. In 1/43 it is always interesting to me how Dissimilar they are to my 1/32 cars AND at the same time my HO cars! A person who has one foot in HO and the other in 1/32 will be well equiped to fully appreciate what 1/43 brings to the table; more so then someone who has just done one or the other!

Make sense?

QUOTE (masmojo @ 21 Nov 2011, 19:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>... BUT If you take certain SCX Compact 1/43 cars and run them on a Carrera GO! track with banking many times the front spoiler will drag the inside front edge. The GO! Banking is quite steep and tight, but their cars have distorted noses and tails to keep them from dragging on their banked turns and their loop tracks, other manufacturers are not bound by these restrictions and tend to keep their body shapes more like their 1:1 brethren!

That´s just the point - at least to me :

CarreraGO! are toys, others like SCX are model cars. As long as Carrera exists they care the idea of bankings, but always too tight for models being scale.
So they rise the clearance, put an angle to front and rear ends of their models and do similar toyish things. The reason is simple. They produce for the public, not for a handful of modellers with higher claims to detailing, scale and authenticity.
I prefer SCX compromises - and the Kyosho bodies...Anmd scratchbuilding.

Roland

QUOTE (masmojo @ 21 Nov 2011, 18:20) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>interesting to me how Dissimilar they are to my 1/32 cars AND at the same time my HO cars! A person who has one foot in HO and the other in 1/32 will be well equiped to fully appreciate what 1/43 brings to the table; more so then someone who has just done one or the other!

I race 1/32 weekly and HO monthly and 1/43 at home (for now) and I know exactly what you mean and completely agree.

QUOTE (Cjent1 @ 22 Nov 2011, 19:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>The new Carrera GO!!! bodies have as good a detail as the DSlot43 cars. They still do need to be lowered, but that is what I do to them.

That's as well because the 908 is genuinely shocking.

I think Roland is being a little harsh or deliberately provocative but I do appreciate some of that may be in the translation, respect to you though your English is a million times better than my German.

However I think it's blindingly obvious what is exciting about these cars. It strikes me that this scale is currently about two things, Sets for Kids and a few like me who buy extra track and cars to play with ( i found the carrera controllers great for teching my kids how to slot race BTW) or folk scratchbuilding/Ranch converting and sending them off for proxy races.

Nothing wrong with those things but here is an opportunity for the scale to be much more, why always proxy? why no club racing? here is the opportunity, Big manufacturer, cars not perfect but concieved with the enthusiast in mind, great!

I tried them at Gaydon and was a little let down but seeing that video has cheered me up. Got an e mail offering me the chance to pre order this week, it would be rude not to try a couple, for home and possibly at the club, who knows?

QUOTE (marctownsend @ 22 Nov 2011, 22:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>However I think it's blindingly obvious what is exciting about these cars. It strikes me that this scale is currently about two things, Sets for Kids and a few like me who buy extra track and cars to play with ( i found the carrera controllers great for teching my kids how to slot race BTW) or folk scratchbuilding/Ranch converting and sending them off for proxy races.

Nothing wrong with those things but here is an opportunity for the scale to be much more, why always proxy? why no club racing? here is the opportunity, Big manufacturer, cars not perfect but concieved with the enthusiast in mind, great!

I have been showing my 1/43 stuff here for many years, in hopes of getting iterest going over there because the density of slot car enthusiasts is much higher there! Apparently, judging by the number of guys who race together and the number of clubs!? I live in Dallas, TX and at one time I was getting together with a few guys, but some lost interest and others moved away, etc. Then when I moved mostly to 1/43 the couple remaining guys did not seem interested! The closest guy to me that I know runs 1/43 is Datto and it's a couple hundred miles!! Presently due to the major manufacturers not taking 1/43 seriouslyl You are not going to find too many adults that take 1/43 serious either! There is maybe a couple dozen guys in North America who have been fighting the good fight and keeping our profile high! THAT is why there are proxy races! It's about the only way you will have any real competition!!

BUT, Kyosho can change that and I truely believe they will! BUT it will have to happen in places like England, Spain and Germany first where the concentration of enthusiasts is high enough to support clubs and organized races! Then we will hopefully get some spillover here!

QUOTE (marctownsend @ 22 Nov 2011, 21:36) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I think Roland is being a little harsh or deliberately provocative but I do appreciate some of that may be in the translation, respect to you though your English is a million times better than my German.

Well, you might see it as deliberately, but it is my opinion. I have trouble dealing with Carrera´s philosophy. In 32nd scale they produce cars that really resemble to their originals, in 43rd the older models at least are only and exclusively toys. Wheels too big, clearance too much, proportions somewhat strange and some of the cars resembling dune buggies. I can´t deliver myself of 43rd static cars and always try to transport their quality to 43rd scale slotcars.
Have a look at Pfuetze´s price picking thread. The first model shown there is a GO! Porsche LMP. Be honest, can an LMP be more unattractive than this one ? Doesn´t this one confirm my opinion really impressively ? This is not more than a well made toy without any resemblance to its big brother. This is one of the Dune Buggies I meant...
Cjent says the newer ones are way better. Fine to learn, since I haven´t bought even one GO! yet ( my reasons are clear aren´t they ? ).
And as I said - Carrera produces the 43rd program for the average population, not for scale and scratchbuilding fans.
And besides that - my daughter had and still has to deal with Carrera now and then - she´s an industrial designer - and tells things about the philosophy there... And she knows what to rivet on, she´s a slotracer as well.
I really accept Go! as something for children to be introduced into the hobby. And I agree with it being a good basis for scratchbuilding. But I don´t understand the partial euphoria of adults for Go! because there are really better and better looking cars on the market ( possibly excluding the newer GO! ones, Cjent ? ) .
Perhaps my attitude is to be understood a bit better when I tell that I have similar "problems" with H0 :
I can´t face up with the fact that a Porsche 911 is as big as a Dodge Charger...Although the bodies sometimes are really very beautiful.
No, there is no real reason for any provocation. Expressing my ideas sometimes sounds a bit harsh, I know. A matter of translation or blood ? Who knows...

Enough quacked.

Roland

After reviewing the DSlot cars, i have to say the detail is superb! The chassis may be a bit over engineered, but I am beginning, no, I am seeing the higher price point.
Kudos to Kyosho!
Perhaps Carrera will consider a Pro class of GO!!! cars in the same price range.
And yes, Carrera does have some strong thoughts about the way to do things.

Roland, Everything you say is 100% correct, we have been complaining to Carrera for years, but they do nothing! Things have improved somewhat sice they Hired Dave Kennedy, but how much & for how long!??