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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday I began to think about building a late '60's F1 from the so called 3L period.

The only shell I had that would be appropriate was a Dave Jones Lotus 25, bought from him back in 2011 at Early Birds.

I have never really studied this period of cars so it took me a little research to understand the differences.

I had a hunt around my box and found much of what I needed:
Tyres, gears, motor, wheels, axles, body shell, driver body.

I've cut a brass sheet for a simple chassis but i'm worried that the motor will be too high in the cockpit if I sit it on top...... the body is really very low!

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Thanks for reading
Andi
 

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I thought 3L stood for 3 litre which was the F1 engine size introduced at the start of the 1966 season to replace the previous 1.5 litre formula1. The Lotus 25 (the first monocoque chassis F1), introduced in 1962 and 33 in 1964, were the last two 1.5L cars from lotus. Both were highly successful winning multiple GPs and the world championship for Jim Clark. They are very small and slim. The 3L cars were immediately much bigger so make better slot cars. Because the Lotus 43 (BRM H16 motor) was late, Lotus ran a 33 in the early part of the 66 season with a 2L version of the Coventry Climax engine, so it just scrapes in as a 3L. This was hopelessly outgunned, even with Jim Clark driving it and looked ugly with the bigger pannier fuel tanks which were needed in 1966.
 

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Andi

You've taken on quite a modification to Dave's original shell.

His shell represents the car when it was launched in 1962 and was at its most sleek, the gearbox cowling was discarded by Lotus after the gearbox overheated during the first couple of grands prix. The Lotus 33 that Lotus ran at times in 1966 and 1967 with stretched Coventry-Climax and BRM engines was the result of loads of modifications over the six years of racing it in 25, 25B and 33 specification.

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My 1962 Lotus 25 built using Dave Jones original shell.

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My 1965 Lotus 33 using a modified vintage Monogram bodyshell. The 1965 Lotus 33 looked pretty much the same as the 1966/67 version other than the wider tyres during the 3-litre formula.

I don't know what photos you are working from but the more you look at the two cars, the more subtle differences you will notice (I don't have to tell a talented model-maker like you that).

The nose is pencil slim on the original 25 but the nose deepened and the radiator intake was larger over the years, the windscreen was revised with the aero flip-up to the bodywork and the opening in the screen (Clark was always bothered by his head being buffeted by the wind and Chapman did as much as he could to make him comfortable), the rear suspension varied over the years from 1964 to 66 but the immediately apparent difference is the positioning of the rear radius arms into the side of the chassis and obviously the rear engine cover varied a lot which I can see you are already working on. Lotus used Firestone tyres instead of Dunlops during 66 and 67.

I hope you don't mind me sticking my nose in....

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi David
More than happy for you to offer some pointers for someone like me who has just started looking at the differences.

I'm not sure i'll get everything 100% right but i'll do my best!

Great to see your cars as they have given me ideas already.

Kind regards
Andi
 

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Andi,

I'm sure you've already found a score or more pictures of the Lotus 33s from 1966 and early 1967, but I thought I'd post a couple of photos of the two Team Lotus cars at Monaco in 1967:

Lotus-33s-at-Monaco-1967.jpg


Clark drove #12 powered by a 2L Coventry Climax V8. Jim was on the 3rd row at the start of the race, and set the fastest race lap time, but his Lotus retired on lap 42 with suspension problems. Car #14 was Graham Hill's Lotus and was powered by a BRM 2.1L V8. Hlll started the race on the 4th row with Dan Gurney. With various retirements, including Bandini's terrible and fatal accident, Hill eventually finished second to Denny Hulme in the Brabham Repco BT20.

5 or 6 years ago, I modified a vintage Monogram Lotus 33 shell to replicate Hill's Monaco car by reducing the height of the side sills and extending the cowling behind the injection trumpets. Unfortunately my Lotus had a bad habit of shedding parts at an alarming rate during the proxy race series in which it was entered. Another poster on this forum can attest to its fragility (which was not intended to duplicate the original car!) My Lotus moved from race host to race host accompanied by a small bag of plastic, resin and metal parts; the number of shed parts increasing from race to race. It didn't take much time or effort to kit bash the car upon its return from series, as a fair number of the small pieces were already detached by that point.
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The shell that remains in one of my spare parts boxes probably doesn't look a whole lot different from the model at its final race (with a banged up chassis underneath it of course) Although as I remember the reporting, the wheels may have been the only items that did not fall off my Lotus during the series.

Lotus-BRM-33-Shell.jpg


Enough history and personal nostalgia from me.

Wishing you great success with your build. I am confident that your Lotus 33 will be both attractive AND sturdy.

Best regards,

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I've got tbe chassis complete after a 3 hour session last night....

The body is starting to look 33ish!

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Thanks for watching
Andi
 

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That is excellent work on the body. Are those 13" wheels and if so what make are they please Andi?

David
 

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Nice to see brass...a bit of a departure for you isnt it Andi?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks David, I fear the nose is not quite right.

The wheels are 13" David, correct for this car of course.
The fronts are Ostorero Lotus 79 parts. Contact the Ostorero brothers via their website if you want some. They are great as they have no inner hub which i've always disliked.
The rears are Allslot Cars front wheels. Just the right width for this set of rules and super light. The only issue is that finding tyres to go on these 13" wheels is very tricky. The car sits on the Allslot front tyres at the rear which are perfect size but very hard. I shall try them but imagine i'll end up using some Paul Gage Urethane. I have personally never liked Urethane, preferring soft rubber and it has been shown that NSR for example performs well in these proxies but to my knowledge there are no NSR tyres with small enough inner diameter for these wheels.
I'd be happy to hear if anyone knows of soft rubber tyres that would fit.....

Cheers
Andi
 

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I notice that Pendles have just released a range of F1 wheel and tyres sets suitable for 1960s and 70s grand prix cars.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The build has moved on and after numerous rounds of filler and sanding we have got some top coat on.
I tried a technique whereby I masked the steip and sprayed the green first. The thinking was that I wanted a deffinate yellow strip rather than using decals and I wanted both the yellow and green on the white undercoat.
it has more or less worked with a tiny bit of white edge showing in one place.

The engine and exhaust detail is from a Scalextric Lotus 49 which I had recently carved up to do one of my Policar conversions.

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The chassis has been painted black so that it fades into the shadow under the car.

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Cheers
Andi
 

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Beautiful work Andi. Thanks for sharing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Progress is slow but constant, I suppose in reality I only began this about 3 weeks ago but it seems like ages....

Once the shell was painted I began decalling and immediately realsied that the roundels were not strong enoug white to work on top of the dark background. This was annoying as it set me back and meant I had to rethink on the hoof. In hindsight I should have reverted to another roundel with a stronger white but I decided to spray the roundels instead.

Cutting perfect circles and then expecting them to form a perfect round when the masking was removed was ambitious. Too ambitious as it turned out.

Anyway to cut the story short I trimmed a bit, sanded lightly and polished out some of the defects and from about 1m away it looks fine but of course shows up in the close ups!!

No time to start agin so on with the decals and tamiya top coat and the thing is starting to look like a car.

Clark (Immense Miniatures of course), is in the car and the windscreen is on. A host of tiny details to go but i'm confident I will make the start line in early December.

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Thanks for looking
Andi
 

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Tony Condon
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what decals did you use andi they look good

cheers tony
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi Tony, they are a mixture, coming part from Pre Wing (Mel Ault) and part from Indycals.

Now I think Mel's supplier is Indycals anyway so effectively one supplier by two means!

The quality is excellent except for unfortunately the strength of the white background. They don't melt under Tamiya spray either although I also use Pattos which I have techniques to avoid melting too!

Cheers
Andi
 

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I hate to correct a model-maker of your exceptional talent Andi but I know that 1960s grand prix cars are not your specialist subject. The cars of this era didn't have the plumbed fire extinguisher such as the one you have mounted on the gearbox. From memory these came in a couple of years after your Lotus 33.

David
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Oh dear David, there goes my concourse points....
Well the gearbox comes off a Scalextric Lotus 49 so I have no doubt that it isn't quite right for tbe Lotus 33. I'll see what I can do.
Andi
 

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Finally done, now a littlw running in and its off to the races!

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Apologies to David for the fire extinguisher.... maybe one day i'll take it off ;)

Oh, and it needs a nice polish up now its done!

Andi
 

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Breathtaking, Andi.

A perfect interpretation of a classic epoch I recall so well. The car's beautiful lines have rarely been bettered in my view.

Also interesting to relate that Jim had two sets of tyres for the '65 season - one for wet weather and one for dry. What would the great Scottish driver make of tyres today lasting 14 laps?

Please don't polish it, Andi. Chapman never did. Polish? Too heavy.
 

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Andi's superb 33 above puts me in mind of the equally beautiful Lotus 48 of 1968.

Is there a case for arguing, therefore, that we slotters have neglected Formula 2 for too long?

There are many wonderful F2s, from both the pre and post wing eras; a pity to eschew 'em, eh?
 
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