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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please could some enlightened club within a reasonable travelling distance from the West Midlands arrange a Lotus/Caterham 7 race day with cars that are absolutely stock with the magnets installed and with absolutely no tuning or setting up permitted. Yes not even tyre sanding and we will apply calipers to the tyres to make sure that is the case. You will be allowed lubrication and glue and that is it!

I have 4 so there is bound to be one of those that is a winning car. I suspect quite a few of us have more than one so clearly entrants can pick and choose there best car.

These are lightweight fun racers that offer very competitive racing and it would be brill to run them on a large circuit somewhere.

I want something very simple that might encourage a few home racers here to turn up.

Who would be up for this very simple and basic event if a club was to arrange it?



Moped
 

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Gary Skipp
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Funny you should say moped, I heard guys at Phoenix were contemplating caterham racing in place of the old f1 magnet series.

Mini's are being raced as a subsitute at the moment, and I'm sure this will be very popular, so I don't know if anything will come of caterhams.

The other thing is providing cars for racers withouyt caterhams. Although in this case we could simply say 'Turn up only if you ahve one', there might not be as many participants as you think.

I think its a good idea, but in terms of practicality, it might not be as 'simple and basic' as you think.
 

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We used to race these as a box standard class. Great fun. Can do a meeting if enough support. Can also provide cars etc in the normal Phoenix style. It`s just fitting it in but yes keep an eye out for Tues nite Caterham racing soon!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The very good thing about the Caterham/Lotus 7 is that the chassis has changed very little over the years if at all, and it is now one of Scaleys longest serving cars still in this years catalogue.

They can be picked up pre-owned for a very low prices as a result and that low priced car that may be a few years old will race as well as one produced today.

It is the perfect club car in my book for this reason.

Go fo it!



Moped
 

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How do the Caterhams/lotus 7s hold up to club racing... they look awfully fragile! I am tempted to buy one, but it looks like the first deslot/meeting with the skirting board my be curtains for the poor car.
 

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QUOTE (moped rider @ 7 May 2004, 15:55)Yes not even tyre sanding and we will apply calipers to the tyres to make sure that is the case.
But what happens if you have bought a "high mileage" example, with the tyres worn down? It would fail the caliper scrutineering.

Mark.
 

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I have to laugh! The rule benders are at it already.


I am sorry but you would have to put new tyres on or borrow a car. There will be plenty of Lotus 7 cars around on that day after all!

You wouldn't want anybody to gain an advantage from less ground clearance would now Mark?


Make sure you ask the Ebayer about the condition of the tyres if you are thinking of purchasing one over the net.

It is incredibly cheap club racing if you ask me as everybody has the same car and the same spares that day.

I will do the scrutineering!!!


The cars are all going to be weighed on my extremely sensitive postal scales and any that are below the minimum weight will be checked over very thoroughly to see what has been done!!!

How are you going to beat that scrutiny test then?

These cars are going to be base standard. Simple.


Moped
 

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QUOTE (moped rider @ 7 May 2004, 17:33)I have to laugh! The rule benders are at it already.


I am sorry but you would have to put new tyres on or borrow a car. There will be plenty of Lotus 7 cars around on that day after all!

You wouldn't want anybody to gain an advantage from less ground clearance would now Mark?


Make sure you ask the Ebayer about the condition of the tyres if you are thinking of purchasing one over the net.

It is incredibly cheap club racing if you ask me as everybody has the same car and the same spares that day.

I will do the scrutineering!!!


The cars are all going to be weighed on my extremely sensitive postal scales and any that are below the minimum weight will be checked over very thoroughly to see what has been done!!!


Moped
If I had to borrow a car, then I would have wasted the money on the hypothetical high mileage second hand car!


Likewise if it is meant to be incredibly cheap racing, then at the very worst I would only expect to replace the braids, not shell out on a new set of tyres!


Anyway - thanks for the swift clarification Mope!


Mark.

btw I'm too dumb to question smart people - the lesser ground clearance issue hadn't entered my head until you mentioned it
 

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QUOTE (moped rider @ 7 May 2004, 17:33)The cars are all going to be weighed on my extremely sensitive postal scales and any that are below the minimum weight will be checked over very thoroughly to see what has been done!!!

How are you going to beat that scrutiny test then?
Oh, that one's easy!

I'd dremel away all non-essential structural items on the chassis, grind out the bodywork to lessen its weight. Then, I could replace all that missing weight with ballast POSITIONED TO GIVE BEST EFFECT. Your scales would still read the same


Actually, if all I was "re-distributing" after all that work was a paltry 3 or 4 grams, then I probably would not bother after all


Very sensitive postal scales eh? hmmm back to that white powder again!!

Joke!!! If it really offends then I will apologise


Mark.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thank you for the tip off Mark!


To be very honest these cars are a real challenge to drive fast even for the most skilled of drivers and are not so magnet heavy as to offend racers who do not like magnets.

My guess would be that they would be good for 15-16 second laps at Phoenix which is much slower than the 13 seconds that the magnet free racers achieved in the final of the GT Phoenix no mags event.

This event if it takes place could well be the slowest event ever at Phoenix or any other club come to that but it will reward pure driver skill.


Moped
 

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We would be very happy to host a standard scalex magnet Cat/Lot 7 event at the NLSME track in NLondon.
What date's had you in mind?
[oneofwos]
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
This is John's track:-

North London Society of Model Engineers track pictures

Are base Lotus 7 cars going to run on your circuit with little modification other than some tyre sanding? (this can be done at the club by the scrutineers to be fair to everyone).

And is the braid steel or copper? (will the magnets work?)

It would certainly be a good introduction to wood tracks for folk who have not used them before.

And it would make a change to have a southern event but its down to interest at the end of the day.


Moped
 

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I`d be happy with holding it at John`s circuit...good change of scenery too
September or later would suit our club.

Fergy we used to race them as a class and they are stronger than they look. The Caterham proved superior to the 7 as the tyres are wider/better grip. Lovely racing,nice and close and slidey too
 

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got them down as club cars, everyone moans because they "fall off" well learn to drive you incompetent ******s!
Sorry but it annoys me that people want to run them but when we do run them they complain.. fer gawds sake, better off without em!

Well unless someone wants to lend me a clatterham I aint coming because I havnt bought one because I dont have any particular interest in them.

Inte.
 
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Sounds like a great idea, i have supplied 6 BMW Mini Coopers to the Phoenix club so we could get the Mini's into a Tuesdays night meeting, quite a few members have already been out and bought there Scalex' Mini Cooper, but the Caterhams do go well, and are not as fragile as they look, and the spares are still available, and Scalex' are bringing out another Caterham this year, the older ones are getting a bit hard to find now, but they do turn up.

I'd love to see it back in a class for a Tuesday night meeting, how about it Jon ??

A Caterham meeting also sounds like a great idea, and keeping the cars will make it more equal racing, i'm sure something could be oganised at the Phoenix club ????
 

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Then truly you have missed out Inte. They race really well. Close too with their own individual character that makes for very skillful racing.
 

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Not quite as clean and tidy now as when the pictures were taken!
I think i did see one tested on the track when they were first released and it looked ok to me, if we were to leave a bit of fish rubber down on the track from our BSCRA cars then there should be sufficient grip for the standard tyres to work, apart from possibly some lead they should be ok as standard.
I am affraid that the pick-up is recessed copper braid , so its a case for a gentle thumb and a bit of driving skill on this track.
If you want to hold a meeting on it i am sure that a good few scalex racers from the southern area would be interested and the entry fee would be most reasonable, let me know and i will see what we can do.
[oneofwos]
 

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QUOTE (moped rider @ 7 May 2004, 15:55)cars that are absolutely stock with the magnets installed and with absolutely no tuning or setting up permitted. Yes not even tyre sanding and we will apply calipers to the tyres to make sure that is the case.
Mope,

Here's a question. I buy a Caterham and it turns out to be poor out of the box. It happens. It's happened to all of us. Only the second modern Scalex I bought was a 911 and the wheel had been rammed on the axle at a cock-eyed angle. Not fit for purpose. At this point do I

A - Slap down another 25-30 quid and buy another hoping it's great. Repeat until a good car is acquired or NatWest repossess my house.
B - Just grin and bear, drive it knowing I stand no chance because the car doesn't work.

Neither is attractive. Tonight we sat down at Crypt and thrashed out the standard (unmodified) class rules and everybody was keen to allow for blue-printing to repair an A case because many of the people there are experienced club racers (and I don't mean me!) and know the problems. Go and ask your mates at Margate if every car (bearing the statisitical anomolies we have to allow for) are created equal...

A few years ago I raced in a HO race which had box standard cars. I had a good Indy car and the guy next to me in practise slapped down a pile of 25 or so Indy cars and went through one by one until he got one that could stay with my 'Wednesday Afternoon Job'. The rest were thrown back in the box presumably to never race again so his £12 car cost up to £300. Is this what we want? Or to force that chap to have only car and if that is a Monday Morning Lemon, well tough t*t!?

What exactly is this obsession with a draconian level of "thou shalt not do this" for? If we all buy a car and can't do anything to do, I;m not talking about "Coops secret technique for slot success" just making sure the thing isn't a turd, what are we testing? I think something that you don't seem to get (if you do let me know and I'll apologise) is that even the tinest level of tweaking is not because people are somehow making up for a lack of skill but merely because the cars are not consistenly good enough out the box to be even because they are built to what is a fairly low budget in a toy market. It's not limited to toys, when I compared my 1:1 Puma to a friends brought at about the same time I was oft tempted to dump the bloody thing back on Reg Vardy's forecourt and torch it.


By your methods we are testing a racers wallet to keep buying them and luck to get a good one. I propose that everyone sends me a photocopy of their bank balance and I'll roll a few dice from my wargames collection to decide a winner!

Anyway Mope, everybody cheats in clubs as you well know so there's no point since clearly I'll just cheat because I can't drive otherwise!!


Coop
 

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Jim Moyes
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Couple of points I'll throw in guys as we race these at both Farnham and Liphook. Firstly they are tough little beggars, detail wise, so not too much problem there. However on Farnhams Ninco track, when the magnet lets go and the car slews round against the guide stop, it is actually forced out slightly, usually enough to lose electrical contact between the guide and it's contacts. Not a problem for us because the car is immediately removed, but you guys who play "magic cranes" may have more cause to shout at the marshalls if they don't click the guide back down fully. On Liphooks wood/copper tape they suffer from the usual front engined malady of the propshaft leaping out of it's mount and even when glued we have had instances of one or both of the brackets ripping out of the floorpan.

Having said all that, they are fun racing and quite different in their characteristics, so as long as you get enough people ,I'm sure it will be a very enjoyable event!

Have to disagree about the Caterham being better as well! May be down to personal preference but with mags the higher ground clearance of the Lotus is equivalent to the handbrake being let off a couple more clicks (but not completely) and on an open wood track the larger diameter tyres tend to give a little more grunt at the end of the straight!

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The Coopdevil issue is a fact because for example I have 2 MG Lolas and one is consistently 4% quicker than the other when I test them myself.

This is the equivalent of an extra lap every 25 laps to put it into perspective.

The only difference surely in this case has to be the engine and the magnet. It can't be anything else.

The only way around this is to put all the Lotus 7 cars into a sack and draw the car you are going to use before each heat. It may mean that you don't race your own car but it is the same for everybody so it is an entirely fair system.

You are just as likely to damage somebody elses car as you are to damage yours so its swings and roundabouts from that point of view. And there is not a lot to damage on them at the end of the day.

Are we agreed that this is the way to go to get around the blueprinting issues?

And if folk do start saying "I ain't allowing anybody else to race my car" then one has to point a finger and ask why not?

They are all the meant to be the same after all and no special work has been done.

At the end of the day we want a winner who can genuinely claim to be the best slot car driver in the UK!



Moped
 
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