[Harry Porsche]

Evening all, has anyone noticed the extreme variaton in performance among the Mabuci motors that Scalextric and Fly are using lately? I have just been handed a most disappointing Scalextric Camaro. It was supposed to run against their Mustang. The chassis are the same, sidewinder layout. Length and track are the same. The Mustang runs a 4.2 second lap (best on 55.3 feet of track) The Camaro barely runs 5.3 seconds. Two weeks ago I bought two Fly 917 porsches, one runs 4.8 seconds, the other 4.4 seconds. they are tuned identically for competition with each other. .4 seconds is a very large gap on the track. All these cars have their stock Mabuchi motors. The faster motors have been switched among the cars and the variaton lies with the motors. I'm considering always buying the Slot It motor, the way I always buy better tires and magnets when I buy a new car. (So I can spend more money to field a car.) I'll stop whining now. Anyone else?

 

[GRAH1]

Friction and gear mesh can play a big part in performance make sure your slower cars are not binding any where ,especialy on fly cars the wheels catch on the chassis

 

[McLaren]

You think that's variation? You should try SCX motors... even worse. Would probably be over a second on your track at least, between best and worst.

 

[Difflock]

I've heard SCX motors like being used, so get better with age up to a point. However, are you saying that if you've got a slow one that it remains slow?

Mark.

 

[Harry Porsche]

Yes, Diff, they are slow out of the box and stay slow. I seriously doubt I'll see a half second improvement. Also, as this motor heats up it gets a bit slower. This camaro is the slowest car in the stable. I have thoroughly gone over the rest of the car and I find no rubbing or snags anywhere. I tried a faster motor from another car and it does speed it up so I am sure the new motor is weak. I will probably go with a Slot It v-12 and call it done. They have been consistent performers in my other sidewinders, turning in solid 4.4-4.5 second laps on the Porsches and GT-40's. I well may start buying a fast motor with most every car I buy henceforth (especially if it has a Mabuchi on board). So, tires, magnet, and MOTOR before test. These cars are called ready to race?

(more whining) (sorry)

Harry

 

[sprint]

Hi all, this is the argument that in our club is used against stock car races; if there is such a variation also out of the box, how is possible to have a fair competition?
I know this motors are extremely cheap, and nobody make a qualitiy control on things few cents worth. Manifaturers say that these are, after all, toys for children,

so at the moment there is no answer. Our choice is to run races with cars tuned, more or less, so anybody could have a possibility. This is relatively hard to understand for newcomers, and we are always changing our rules

to reach a good compromise.
Ciao

 

[Nico]

I have noticed exactly the same characteristics.

But I also found out that if you buy a replacement Fly motor, that those are the strongest motors. I tried this 4 times now and always the replacement motor was by far stronger and faster than the motor that was in the car that I bought brand new!!!!!

The variation with the motors in the cars a very wide. So to talk about an equal race is simply wrong!! Yes, Fly say that they are toys, but if you use them for racing, you have to find a away to solve this problem!

Nico

24h GT Salzburg

 

[Difflock]

Incidentally Harry, I've got a Scaley Mustang (red, white & blue no.15) and it had a good motor in it. A friend got the Camaro (blue no.6) and that also went well, until he went the Scaleauto 35k route plus another mag

Now it goes really well, but he still falls off on the bends!

Mark.

 

[Ecurie Martini]

And herein lies the fallacy of "box-stock" racing. When I was involved in SCCA racing in the 50's, it was quite clear that the preparation of a competitive "stock" sportscar was a more expensive proposition than running a modest "modified" car of comparable performance.

The search for a good motor, round wheels and decent gears can quickly cost more than the substitution of better parts from Slot-It, BWA etc. When I returned to slots in '95, I began with a batch purchase from someone who had accumulated a vast Scalextric collection (and, apperently, an equally vast collection of debt) It included about 30 spare motors. I have found a very significant variation among them.

In terms of current production, my experience is that there is a spectrum - Fly cars are totally unpredictable in terms of performance while the Scalextric IRL cars appear to be remarkably closely matched.

A note of caution: Track times may reflect motor suitability rather than motor output. Depending on the track, a milder motor may offer better overall balance and shortr lap times especially in non-magnet cars.

EM

 

[Harry Porsche]

Thanks for all the replies! Very helpful. I went the Slot It v-12, 11 tooth pinion, dual Neo magnets, ('neath the axle and the stock position ahead of the motor) and silicone tires. It will pull a solid 4.6 second lap, so in competition I might see 4.5. Still, its a far cry from the solid 4.2 mustang. I'm done tuning it for now as it will compete with more of the club's cars. Some interesting points here. I don't ordinarily leave the car shop without the tires and magnet (and lately the motor). I have yet to be able to race the cars right out of the box in terms of being able to use the whole motor and see clean laps at track speed. I usually only need tires and a magnet with enough downforce to get the tires to hook up and no more. I still very much need to drive the car. Perhaps the "ready-to-race" is merely a technicality. I would appreciate cars being made available without motors, tires, and magnets and lower the price maybe a third. I now have a car I can race with but spent half again the price of the car to get there (disappointing). This was the first Scalextric car I have had such bad luck with(out of about a dozen this year). I too, have noticed that the IRL cars are very close in performance, and pleasantly fast to race with for the price plus simple mods (solid 4.5 sec. with tires and a better magnet). On the P.C.O.D. track the best motors are 25,000-30,000 rpm in all the cars. The Slot It v-12/25 is a stellar performer with these cars, excellent torque and wide power band. Thank you all for reading and responding to my whining disappointment.

Modifyingly yours,
Harry

 

[Larry LS]

Well when you are dealing with inexpensive (read Cheap) motors with a 10-15% variation allowed in specification tolerances, what can you expect? No motor maker for the home set market can varify that their motors are with in even 5% of each other. Just not going to happen for the cost involved and the time taken to make them.

So take it as the standard and start looking through a bunch of motors, to even find some with in 3-5 percent of each other.

If you insist on running so called box stock classes, you are going to put up with this problem, of out of tolerance motors, gears, wheels, and tires etc. Box stock racing does not exist in reality anywhere.

Racing fairly, only exists as you allow it to evolve with gradual improvements to the over the counter cars. How far you go allowing this. is up to your organization.

In my humble opinion!

 

[MRE]

All mass-produced motors have a production tolerance which can make a big difference. Just ask the serious racing guys.

We stock the Scalextric motors, and regularly get customers wanting to run them up to hear the tone. Some are real screamers, some are noticeably slow, but most fall into an average 80% band.

I think you'll find most racers have around a dozen motors in their pit boxes, as revs are not everyting. Sometimes a slow sounding motor can have more torque or resp[ond better to a poor power supply. This is normally due to the commutator timing which is set at assembly. More advance can mean more revs but at the cost of heat buildup.

Best adice is to try some different motors and see the results.

By the way, the type of car and colour of bodywork has no bearing on the motor performance. Anyone who thinks otherwise should ask themsleves why they beleive this ?

 

[Difflock]

QUOTE (MRE @ 25 Mar 2004, 12:21)By the way, the type of car and colour of bodywork has no bearing on the motor performance. Anyone who thinks otherwise should ask themsleves why they beleive this ?
But Gary, Red ones always go faster!!

Maybe it's some twisted logic brought on from seeing red as the de riguer colour on sports cars, Ferrari being the prime example. Ferraris are faster than your average tin box.

Ahem..I've recently purchased a Pink Kar Ferrar GTO and it was the GREEN version! My logic was that nobody would buy a green Ferrari (apart from me). The car drives very nicely (Had some laps at Pendleslot's big, copper tape track). It was down on straightline speed, but I can soon change the gearing. Anyway, having a pleasant handling car is more than half the battle in racing.

As regards the other legend about green cars being trouble, I'll wait and see. If the legend is true then a certain Nick Hirst/ Hurst (sorry Nick!) will be screwed in the tin top series, because his little Peugeot has a loud metallic green finish a la Max Power brigade

Mark.

 

[Harry Porsche]

Gary, I heard the same thing about the timing of the motors. I was told by a large stocker that he had approached Mabuchi and asked if they would consider a 15 degree timing advance and they wouldn't even entertain it. True, revs arent the whole story. I have noticed that these motors get quite hot regardless of their rev capability. My Nascars will burn you after a dozen or so fast laps. I think I will try to listen to a new Mabuchi motor befor buying the car. Good idea.

Harry

 

[MRE]

Always happy to be of help.