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Manufacturer Bashing As Always

5796 Views 88 Replies 30 Participants Last post by  Doug
To begin with Tropi, if you want an example of admission of a problem for Fly see my previous postings with reference to GT40 chassis. If there is a problem I will let you know here and also let you know what is going to be done about it and how Gaugemaster and members of the forum can possibly help each other. This was the point of me joining the forum and a thread in the News section is there for you to ask questions etc..

However, like many forums of many different types, they tend to be used by a very small minority of people of which some have an axe to grind or will find one if they possibly can. I am not on the forum to promote my own products unlike other manufacturers that feature here, nor am I here to say how wonderful I am and how experienced I am in the world of slot racing unlike others who write here. I am the first to admit that I have not been involved with slot cars for very long. However, I do have resources to be able to assist in many ways.

I can give you MY view on a product. The opinions and notes I put on these pages are my own, and not neccessarily that of Gaugemaster. To this end, I can say if a car is good or bad and express it as my opinion. I think the New Fly BMW CSL and the Ferrari are excellent, but I am not so keen of the Fly Racing series - not because there is a problem, I just tend to collect and not race so they are not my cup of tea. There are too many people here stating what they think are facts but have no back-up for what they are saying, so they may as well not bother. The manufacturers do look at the various forums around the world (not just this one) and constructive criticism is taken on board, but what amazes me is that any of you seem to think that in companies like Fly there is someone who draws a Ferrari, thinks to himself 'oh, that is near enough' and then promptly goes and makes it!! Have some common sense! Every one of the large companies has teams of people taking drawings, making block models, prototypes, moulds etc. It is not just done with a pencil and back of a newspaper. There are limitations on producing a model slot car as regard to detailing, and fitting a can motor inside a plastic bodyshell which may well throw the model out by a couple of millimetres, but that is hardly the end of civilisation as we know it (although reading some of these posts you would think the world was at an end because of it).

The next thing on the agenda after Fly bashing is Fly moaning. Having spent weeks saying that the Fly whatever is so inaccurate it is untrue, many of you then start moaning that the next Fly model is a week late being released! Its not just Fly either, as many of the manufacturers come in for the same sort of criticism.

I think it is time that many of you started to realise that the manufacturers are there to produce what you want to buy, and they will listen IF you are constructive, but if continual slagging off is all they can expect then they will make what they like and not what you want. After all, just because the few that read this forum don't buy their car, whether it is a Fly, a Ninco or a Scalextric, do you think they are really worried? Slot car manufacturers are a BUSINESS, not a hobby, and they do not need your permission to make a slot car. However, they will play ball with you if you play ball with them.

This forum needs a way of reviewing models in a standard way: same circuit, same tests, SAME REVIEWER!!. Without these then reviews are very personal and everyone has an opinion on what is good and what is bad. Gaugemaster stopped supplying cars for review for the NSCC magazine as the reviews were few and far between and we fast got the impression that the reviewer was just using us to build upon his own collection of slot cars.

Nuro and Swissracer have done some excellent reviews - the ones on the Fly GT40, Slot It Porsche and Fly Corvette were all extremely good. Yes, they criticised the products and praised them too, but were fair and constructive in what they had to say. I have sent the two Fly reviews to Fly so they can see for themselves.

Apart from all that, I very much get the feeling that for certain forum members, nothing could ever be right - unless they made it themselves and then it would be perfect in every way. To these members I suggest they grow up and get into the real world, and Jonny S is quite right - at the end of the day these are toy cars. Highly detailed, motorised, but nevertheless toy cars.

Lastly, I am not on the forum to defend Fly or anyone else against 'opinions' as everyone has their opinions as do I and I respect that. However, I am here to help if I can, but you will also need to help yourselves if you want to be heard. Simple Fly/Ninco/Carrera/Scalextric or whoever bashing will not help your cause and will make you look ridiculous not only in the eyes of the manufacturers, but in the eyes of those many members who read these forums and do not neccessarily post. It is those people who you all should be encouraging to come into the hobby, as the more voices you have the louder you can shout and get yourself heard, yet they come here, see it is just a load of people slagging each other and the manufacturers and probably think to themselves that it is a bit of a childrens tea party.

Whilst I realise that this posting will not be popular with some, I guess there are others who agree with me and can see the logic of what I am saying. Assuming they post here, this at least will give me some idea of whose posts to the forums I should take seriously and who I should take with a pinch of salt.

Aaron
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3
QUOTE Big boys or not - some will behave irrationally on occasion.

I would agree with Peter on that. For example, is it rational for Fly to refuse to produce open-wheel cars? It's the owner's decision because he hates them, but is it rational from a business viewpoint for a company of Fly's stature to ignore any segment of the slot car market? I'm sure others in the industry have made irrational, if somewhat less obvious, decisions too. Personalities often get in the way of perfect business sense.

550rs: MicroSoft?? Oh no....how many reboot jokes can we handle?


I agree though. How many vehicles (no pun intended
) are really in place that allow slot manufacturers more effective access to feedback than the forums? ...especially this one.
Even if we represent a small percentage of total consumers, we are also on the high side of product knowledge. In the world of 1:1 cars, the voice of enthusiasts has always been regarded by most makers at a level that exceeds their market share. Why should it be different with slot cars?
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QUOTE (550rs @ 9 Feb 2004, 03:27 AM)Given that many members are on most boards, we might add up to somewhere between 10-20% of a typical Limited edition run.

Sorry, but you are very much mistaken. Since this forum has 521 registered members, your figures are way out. Those members that regularly post are probably all buyers of limited edition models, but there are many, many more who are not members here who buy them - some for collecting, some for racing. Fly production ranges from 250 pieces to 8000 pieces depending on the model. The average worldwide production of a limited edition model is 1200 and therefore this forum probably represents less than 3% of buyers worldwide.

As far as open wheel cars are concerned, what sort of thing do you want to see? And more to the point, is anyone making them at the moment and therefore currently has the license for them? If Fly have to pay a fortune for the license, are you prepared to accept that cost added to the price of the model? Just a few things to consider before questioning whether or not Fly are making good business-sense.

Aaron
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Aaron, I have been told by more than one source that Fly's owner has stated that he won't make open-wheel cars (F1, for example) simply because he personally dislikes them. If you know differently, please speak up! I used that only as an example of firms making decisions that may not reflect optimum business sense. While he has every right to produce whatever he wants, it doesn't follow that the business is better for it.

I would love to see what Fly could do with F1 cars.
As far as open wheel cars are concerned, what sort of thing do you want to see?
I, and I'm sure many others, would love to see realistic models of 60's GP cars produced to the standard of current Scalex cars at a reasonaBLE PRICE.



jOHN
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2
I agree but doesn`t this belong on the other topic `What can GM do for you?`
I only say that cos I`m old and confused
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mmm - I am not so sure about it - Yes theoretically you are right - but in practice - I think 'slightly' overgeneralizing? My experience brings forward examples that look rather differently. Big boys or not - some will behave irrationally on occasion. Let us not confuse what companies 'ought' to do (or what they say that they do) with what they actually practice. There are many rather good reasons to why companies go under from time to time... and sometimes they are just lucky to survive... Also pride and arrogance is not isolated to ignorant punters like me...[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I was generalising or just being brief and to the point.

To expand, of course companies are owned and staffed by human beings and are affected by the usual range of emotions but what I am actually saying is that companies operate in line with their business plans, their policies and their market place and in the main will make sound business decisions ruled by those factors. I'm sure there is many a discussion within these companies in the planning and development stage about the choice and design of project as people promote their personal ideas and preferences, these might even be heated emotional debates, but ultimately they will need to reach a sound decision in the best interest of the company.

They are in their chosen field to make a product that they believe in, and I fully understand that they take a pride in this product and that they also aim to make a profit that supports their business for today and it's future development.

My point was that a few negative comments from their customers will not upset them personally as most companies welcome customer feedback as one of the ways of measuring their performance.

Where I fully agree with you Peter is that of course none of this applies if the company is run autocratically and on the whim of one person who may not always make sound decisions.

David
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QUOTE They are in their chosen field to make a product that they believe in, and I fully understand that they take a pride in this product and that they also aim to make a profit that supports their business for today and it's future development.

And that is exactly why Rolls Royce doesn't make pickup trucks,even though they could.It is just not what the want to do.

If Fly doesn't want to make F1 cars,that's thier decision,and it needs no validation from anyone,other than the people that run Fly.

I could make a lot more money making wheels more like Slot.it's,but,I choose not to do that,it's not what I want to do.I have a different philosophy to them,I am much more Scale Appearance oriented than pure performance oriented.I make the wheels I make,because,that is what I like to see on my cars.If other people like that,then,that's great.If some people think I should enter the Pure Performance market(which I could easily do),sorry,I'm just not interested/motivated to do that.

Exact same reasoning applies to Fly's decision not to do F1 cars
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G
2
Aaron,
I am not being difficult but your figures don't add up,


If there are 521 Forum members and limited editions are from 250 to average 1200 cars that sure do not mean were are 3% we would be 200% to 42% in other words should all members choose to do so we buy out a 250 limited cars run, twice over.

RR
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I agree with RR; furthermore, we represent others, fellow slotracers and friends, that don't have the skill to work on computers and Internet, but will know the news of the slot world from us, the so called "experts".

Ciao
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Just to add a few figures: Take January: 8970 unique individuals visited SlotForum over the month, with an average of 749 visits per day. Shows how many other folk are interested in what's going on.
G
Thank You Nuro.

A Forum like this (which personally I think is the best one I have ever been involved with) has vastly more influence than just the number of members and all slot car manufactures should take very careful notice of what happens on here as it will effect their company in the long term.

RR
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QUOTE ...and all slot car manufactures should take very careful notice of what happens on here as it will effect their company in the long term.

OR ELSE!

Snigger.


Easy folks, let's not disappear up our own derrieres's.
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QUOTE Sorry, but you are very much mistaken.

Aaron,

I was taking a global outlook so I put "boards". Cars ARE sometimes purchased outside Europe you know -- Buddha knows we foreigners probably manufacture more than the UK


I took Slot Forum, HRW and SCI with 500+, 1000+ and 475 members approximately but there are others like OWH and Q32 as well as store-based boards (Pendle, Slot Garage). SCI, HRW and Q32 can share member id's because of EzyBoard functionality and many SCI/HRW members also visit SF which duplicates member ids.

Not every member is active but then not every board visitor is registered so overall readers -- potential buyers -- exceed registered members.

Many members buy more than one car and some will buy most of the cars on offer i.e. every livery of the same basic model. Some buy 2 cars, one for the track and one for the shelf. Ultimately the number is still fluffy but I would suggest much more than 3% of an average production run and certainly a great venue for manufacturers to interact with purchasers. In writing my original post, I had on my software marketing hat. I'd pay gold for an avenue like this.

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QUOTE Since this forum has 521 registered members, your figures are way out. Those members that regularly post are probably all buyers of limited edition models, but there are many, many more who are not members here who buy them

I have repeated the quote from my last post above. Since not all members regularly post, the figures I quoted were accurate. Since you seem to want to be difficult (I wonder why?), then perhaps you should calculate the number of each limited edition distributed to each country, how many slot forum members are in each country and buy them in their own country and how many import them from abroad or via foreign web sites or.........

QUOTE should all members choose to do so we buy out a 250 limited cars run, twice over.

Please don't be so naive to think that only people who write on this forum buy limited edition Fly cars, or are the only ones to have the opportunity. It is called being realistic.

Now for the other points:

Jonny S, yes, you are right.

Fergy, I will contact Fly for you and try and get an official statement. I cannot promise to recieve one, but I will do what I can.

Nuro, I am still chasing the corvette thing.

BWAMINISPEED, good points!!

vfr750, do you mean 60's F1? If so, I will see what I can find out.

As soon as I can get any clarification, I will let you all know in the News section under a new thread. In fact, a 'Questions For Fly ' Thread might be a good idea, instead of having questions spread all over the place.

Aaron
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Any body or group of Slotties with a positive attitude regarding feedback will be taken seriously as well intentioned. That was my point regarding reviews and feedback. We are a good source but represent a small portion of the buying public,i.e. I`m one of three or four Phoenix club members on SF of a total membership of 235 members.

I wouldn`t want to get too carried away wuth the word `expert` but as we are a varied and diverse group we do cover a lot of ground between us.
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G
Aaron read your own posts as you are wrong.

Show me how 521 members = 3% of a limited car run using a average of 1200 cars.

What 550rs said and he is quite correct is all the forums members would add up between 10-20% of a limited production run which is quite reasonable. Show me were 3% comes from using your own figures of an average of 1200 cars and 521 members??

RR
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QUOTE Since not all members regularly post, the figures I quoted were accurate.
Posting is an absolutely meaningless stat -- potential buyers READ. One reviewer posts, many buyers read, its THAT simple. I'm not pushing a point here because the smart manufacturers have worked this out to their benefit, and their effort brings results.

(Excess emoticons here only to balance the worrying out-of-fun situation)

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How many forum members buy limited editions?

a lot on here are after racing and will buy a cheaper livery, but many will buy the limited edition.

As mentioned, many people will read/be told of the posts and absorb or agree with the info without posting, what they think has already been said

And some readers will think all this talk is a load of nonsense.

So trying to guage the influence and representability of this forum is difficult.

However, market researching such a specific and targeted product must be very difficult, you cant just pick 5000 random people off the street and ask them what they reckon.

Admittedly forum posters represent the more outspoken, and possibly more enthusiastic members of the slot buying public, but we may be able to give more hints about what the market wants than any other group of people
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Sorry RR, you have obviously decide that you are correct whatever I write here. Incidentally, I do agree with you 550rs concerning reading as well as writing to forums, but I think it is important to remember that this is one, as you have said, of many forums that all cover similar subjects and to define such a large quantity of limited edition buyers as having connections with forums is somewhat hit and miss.

I agreed to come on the forums to try and assist with Fly problems you all may have experienced. It seems that many of you would not be happy even if they were perfect in every way, so I am fast getting the feeling it is not worth the time to try and help.

Should anyone have any questions concerning Fly, Spirit, Bumslot, Pink Kar, Cartrix or Hobby Clasic, them I suggest you add your questions to the 'What can Gaugemaster Do For You?' thread in the news section and I will do my best to answer all questions there. Anyone who is awaiting an answer from the cars forum look to the news section as above.

Aaron
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