MiniAuto Gt40

6975 Views 71 Replies 26 Participants Last post by Wankel Ickx, Feb 20, 2004

philsmith

Discussion Starter · Feb 12, 2004 (Edited by Moderator)

This years Mini Auto magazine suscription car is the silver Graham Hill GT40, shame Fly have not included the bug screen and mirrors that this car ran with, but looks sharp anyway.

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Gringo Hairpiece

· #41 · Feb 17, 2004

I wasn't going to get involved in this debate but I have to that I fell Peter has hit this one on the head. I suspect it's not Fly charging these prices but MiniAuto, getting rid of spares at a price that won't undermine the subscription offer.

Mecoprop

· #42 · Feb 17, 2004

The real rip-off is 'percentage mark-up', per se.

Let's use some silly but simple figures to make the point clear.

Say a car costs $5 to manufacture and sells to the customer for $25.
Say another car costs $50 to manufacture, should it then cost the customer $250?
Think about it.

Intergrali

· #43 · Feb 17, 2004

ahhh

retail rip-off price, dont ya love it?

Rob.

p.s £40 is a little on the high side tbh tho

Pendleslot

· #44 · Feb 17, 2004

If after all the talk of rip-off prices anybody still wants to purchase the Mini-auto GT40, we have a small number for sale. Mention 'Slotforum' and we'll throw in a 2003 Miniauto yearbook for free. In my opinion the yearbook is one of the best publications each year plus its cover to cover slot cars unlike the mini-auto mag which features all aspects of model cars.

Sean

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Scott B

· #45 · Feb 18, 2004

Well, I am amazed.

My lack of fondness for GT40s has kept me away until now. Have to say I am surprised other Moderators have not baulked at the "rip off" language used. I think too many following posts mention it to remove it now, but having found the source, MRE's post, I can't help but be struck by what appears to be a case of the pot making erroneous colour references about the kettle.

QUOTE Fly have been ripping slotters off for ages, and yet the cars still sell, but in much smaller numbers as people get wise.

I thought we had this one refuted by Gaugemaster - who as distributor ought to know - a few weeks back. And since when is a price premium a "rip off" when you have a choice to buy (or indeed, not buy) both cheaper and more expensive slot cars.

QUOTE There is no extra production cost in making the Miniauto GT40 than any other GT40, yet the price is 75% more.

Really? It is a unique livery being sold over a limited production run, but what does production cost have to do with it anyway? A gallon of petrol costs the same to produce but varies widely in price across the country, on the motorway, in the supermarket. Contemplate, if you will, the price variance of seats on any scheduled aircraft flight.

Surely pricing is set by what the market will pay and costs structured to allow a profit at that price level, not the other way around.

QUOTE Please don't knock what the dealers charge,…

QUOTE The cars are priced at the normal mark-up, which we have to do or we couldn't stay in business,..

Okay, fair enough. We all have to make a living and Gordon Brown has not made it illegal to make a profit - yet - but what is this...

QUOTE …but I agree that it is very high and typical Fly making money.

So, the price is high, partly due to "normal mark-up" which you need to make a profit to stay in business, but for some reason it is bad for Fly to do the same. What are they, a slot charity or something?

We will have turkeys voting for Christmas next.

Scott

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Russell Sheldon

· #46 · Feb 18, 2004

Don't get ripped-off by Mr Brown and everyone else in the food chain!

The Fly Ref. 96012 Ford GT40 MKII 'Miniauto' is available from Diber for €56,94, which is approximately £38.42.

Kind regards,

Russell

G

· #47 · Feb 18, 2004

At £38.42 this shoots down the price is fixed by Miniauto theory.

RR

jonny s

· #48 · Feb 18, 2004

It`s a sad day when you can`t tell the difference between something being expensive or a rip off? Being ripped off normaly means that something illegal has occured. As for the comments about % margins etc and other comments concerning business practise ...let`s see some of you do better then? Any takers out there? Thought not.

As for Scott`s point about moderators, I agree but make no further comments as it breaks the Forum rules.

Intergrali

· #49 · Feb 18, 2004

jonny lend us some money an I'll start..

Mecoprop

· #50 · Feb 18, 2004

As is often the case, slang terms have different connotations to different people.
While a few people might consider the term 'rip off' to involve illegality, most people don't.

Rip-off is generally accepted to describe the act of LEGALLY obtaining a greatly enhanced profit without reasonable justification. Other similar words would be 'fleece', 'con', 'soak', 'screw', stick the arm in' or, nice and simply, 'overcharge'. These terms are occasionally used to describe estate agents, for instance. Loan sharks would be another popular contender.
There are others.

Ken R

· #51 · Feb 18, 2004

ah I think we've boiled it down to semantics!

If you "rip off" someone, you are slealing from/cheating them.

If something is descibed as "a rip off", its a coloquial cry that we make when we thinks something is way overpriced.

No the dealers, distributors, manufacturers aren't actually ripping off anybody BUT the retail price of this particular model is seen by many average joes (me included) as "a rip off".

jonny s

· #52 · Feb 18, 2004

My opinion is that all of those terms suggest improper behaviour and that I believe Gary regrets posting that statement, especialy as he is part of the chain that is supposedly `ripping off`. I further believe that this term is used incorrectly to describe expensive products and worry that it damages our (SF) relationship with manufacturers and incites a negative attitude. Just my opinion

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Mecoprop

· #53 · Feb 18, 2004 (Edited by Moderator)

Semantics? I thought that was something to do with reproduction!

Used incorrectly to describe expensive products?
It depend only on whether the PROFIT is considered to be excessive rather on the price asked of the customer.

Incites a negative attitude? By whom and in what way negative?

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MRE

· #54 · Feb 18, 2004

I am a little surprised at the GT40 price at Diber. It is a lot LESS than the trade price we have to pay from Gaugemaster.

Couplf of points I would like to introduce. How about we substitute the word JUSTIFY here.

My own feeling is that I find it hard to JUSTIFY the price of some Fly cars, given that the production cost is approximately equal for each model of a given type. For example. all GT40's will cost within 5% of each other to produce. Now can anyone tell me how to JUSTIFY a price that is often double or even more for similar cars ?

If the words 'rip-off' have offended anyone, let me say thats its how I feel when I buy one car for maybe £35 and then get charged up to £100 for a similar car in a different colour from the same maker !

I don't regret my own opinions, and nobody has to agree with me, but I still think that Fly cars could be competitive on price with other makes, or at least JUSTIFY the price difference in their own models.

G

· #55 · Feb 18, 2004

I agree with Gary, and would like to see some justifiable reason why some FLY cars are so very expensive? apart from that they can sell them at that price which is not a good enough reason.

RR

Scott B

· #56 · Feb 19, 2004

QUOTE apart from that they can sell them at that price which is not a good enough reason.

That is precisely a good enough reason. It is a business.

Over the years Fly have invested in a brand image, an intangible equity and can reap a continuing reward in higher margins. Selling products cheap is easy, commanding a premium is not.

See also Sony, BMW, Moet & Chandon, Rolex, Tommy Hilfiger and countless others.

QUOTE For example. all GT40's will cost within 5% of each other to produce. Now can anyone tell me how to JUSTIFY a price that is often double or even more for similar cars ?

Yes, I can. People have differing perception of the relative value and so will pay differing prices. What would you rather have in stock: a dozen Gulf 917 sets or a dozen Piper?

Scott

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G

· #57 · Feb 19, 2004

Yes it's a business, but if you overcharge you damage your own company and FLY slot car are no better perceived than Scalextric who's quality control is much better. So in a lot customers minds they do not justify a premium.

RR

mtucker666

· #58 · Feb 19, 2004

2

QUOTE Selling products cheap is easy, commanding a premium is not.

See also Sony, BMW, Moet & Chandon, Rolex, Tommy Hilfiger and countless others.

Toyota not in that list Scott??

My opinion - if you want and can afford buy them, if not, don't. If you want and can't afford you are living beyond your means.

Matt

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Mecoprop

· #59 · Feb 19, 2004

The continued recurrence of threads such as this seems very strong evidence that the 'brand image' of Fly has been weakening for some considerable time and that failure to develop effective solutions to documented problems can only assist in that downhill process.

I do not believe that people are posting falsehoods, but are posting genuine concerns.

On a more upbeat note, it is encouraging to see Gaugemaster making real attempts to support the UK customer and it is to be hoped that this approach will filter through to Fly themselves.

astro

· #60 · Feb 19, 2004

Really wanted this livery, to match my exoto in the same finish, but its too much for me to pay for a slot car; don't like the black chimneys either.

I can understand the magazine/limited edition price, I just wish it hadn't been this livery. Collectors would collect whatever, for investment purposes I guess, but this would have been a popular livery if it had been a standard priced one.

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