[Schackel]

I think motors are at least as essential, if not even more, in 43rd scale than chassis because motors determine the possible minimum dimensions of 43rd scale slotcars and the drive principle - inline / anglewinder / sidewinder .

Until now one primarily sees closed cars - from saloons to Group C or GTP or whatsoever.

But there are lots of beautiful open cars - from Vintage via CanAm up to modern LMP´s. Their general drawback is the height. They all are rather low, especially the modern ones.
The actual popular motor sizes are either something like the GO! dimensions or the Mabuchi SH-030SA.
The GO! - size enables anglewinders and with a bit of tweaking even sidewinders - always assuming SCALE wheel diameters. But it is too high for real scale open cars.
The Mabuchi is low enough for such cars but too wide. It can only be used inline and at a rather big angle as anglewinder. But especially the moderrn spyders are quite low between the wheels. Well, a little compromise in this area of the body wouldn´t affect the overall appearance anywhere near the too big wheels on the LMP´s of a famous German Producer.

So wouldn´t it be a useful research action to find out ( or even to show ) what is available AND being used ?

My first attempt was the motor shown here on the right. Much smaller thatn the GO! on the left. Neos. Arm shaft 1 mm.
But : Its voltage range is between 5 volts and 12 volts on the data sheet, and in reality the motor starts running at 7 volts. The power is too low.
In my opinion it should be possible to get a usable motor from this basis. Probably a matter of winds / wire dia.
But how to find out ? Pre - finance some experimental changes with the producer ? They even wanted 40$ for the five samples...

Well, come on, what "tiny" motors do you have ?

Roland

 

[Lloyd.L]

Hi Roland, I have several small motors in my box that I have yet to try. Although I also do proxy races, my main building is for 1962 to 1972 rally cars, so out and out speed is not always what I need.

The smallest are the phone type motors, which I will be trying, using belt drive, in my small engine class cars, original FIAT 500 etc.

I also have a small can motor that fits somewhere between the phone motor and the open Mabuchi motor as useh in HO cars. I have not tried this small can yet, but hope to soon.

Most of my cars will use the HO type Mabuchi as it has plenty of performance but is low enough to allow reasonable interior detail.

The Radioshack/Carrera Go/ SCX Compact type cans have plenty of grunt for my fastest rally cars on my routed wood rally track and, with the right gearing and tyre choice can be very quick on my Carrera Go plastic track as well.

I do not use the big motors as found in Artin and similar as it does not allow for interior detail.

That's my list at the moment, but if any new motors that fit the bill come along I will , of course, try them out.

Regards, Lloyd.

 

[Cjent1]

Predominately, I use 2 types of FF-030 cans and the "boxer type HO motors. The "boxer works great for open cockpit cars.
The left one is the GO!!!/SCX Compact/Radio Shack/SCE motor which snap into the GO!!!/SCX Compact chassis, the center FF-030 is one available through electric supply stores, and the "boxer" is on some 1/43d scale retailers websites.

 

[pfuetze]

Motors are one problem for such low cars, but then aren´t you running into problems with the crown gear as well?

 

[Schackel]

QUOTE (pfuetze @ 7 Apr 2012, 20:25) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Motors are one problem for such low cars, but then aren´t you running into problems with the crown gear as well?

What do you mean - the availability of crowns in an appropriate diameter or the height of the bodies above the gears ?
I let cut crown gears with 24/26/28/30/32 t, 3/32 bore, module 0.4 ( just 64p ), of which the biggest is 13.6 mm and the smallest 10.5 mm .
As to the fit under the body - of course there have to be similar small extensions for the gear in the deck of the body as in 32nd scale.

Regards,

Roland

 

[Tsooko]

Hey Roland
When I was flying RC helicopters The tail rotor was often controlled by it's own motor. These motors are quite small. The only one I can find right now ( a spare ) is 10 mm at the flats. Numbers on this motor are 456yv. It looks similar to a ff-030. I know you can get smaller ones. Perhaps one of those will do. The only problem I found is that they didn't have carbon brushes and therefore didn't last very long. Small carbon brushed motors could be a little harder to find.
Another solution is to mount a motor midship and use an extention. ( driveshaft ) MT Resins has small motors and drive shaft extention tubes. Then you can mount your motor forward of the usual position, like under the driver where there is more room. This is what I'm going to do with my Bentley Speed 8 bodies. This is of course much easier on LMP's that have a covered cockpit. ( roof )
Just some thoughts

Ted

 

[amarcord]

Hallo!

This is a Ranch-Design (which is a Radio Shack Hi-Speed Motor) mounted S.W.
1) in "verticale" (sorry!!)



2) e in orizzontale



This is a Beardog Motors (L= 18,7 mm.) for chassis F1



ciao!!!

 

[Cjent1]

What is a Beardog, and where does it come from, amarcord?

 

[Schackel]

QUOTE (amarcord @ 10 Apr 2012, 18:38) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>This is a Beardog Motors (L= 18,7 mm.) for chassis F1
ciao!!!

Nice, but not what I intended to initiate with this thread. A motor that stands vertically in the chassis is absolutely counter - produvtive to the idea of getting flatter for being able to build the mentioned "open" cars as well.

I can not imagine that, if I have a real SCALE formula one car in 1/43rd, the body will fit onto this chassis/motor configuration. If a motor protrudes so much as in this chassis, I could also use 32nd scale motors and tweak the body a bit...
This is only my view of 43rd SCALE slotracing, no doctrine.

Roland

 

[Schackel]

QUOTE (Tsooko @ 8 Apr 2012, 18:07) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hey Roland
When I was flying RC helicopters The tail rotor was often controlled by it's own motor. These motors are quite small.

That´s right, but unfortunately too weak, too.

I know you can get smaller ones. Perhaps one of those will do. The only problem I found is that they didn't have carbon brushes and therefore didn't last very long. Small carbon brushed motors could be a little harder to find.

Yes, but I have done a lot of "research work" with small motors meanwhile and believe me, there are more than enough with appropiate carbon brushes and size. The bad luck is that none of them has characteristics that make him REALLY usable for our purposes ( no of turns, wire dia., timing, mag strength or whatsoever ) A lot of slotracers compensate such shortcomings by simply altering the working voltage. But that´s a suspect compromise in my opinion.

Another solution is to mount a motor midship and use an extention. ( driveshaft ) MT Resins has small motors and drive shaft extention tubes. Then you can mount your motor forward of the usual position, like under the driver where there is more room. This is what I'm going to do with my Bentley Speed 8 bodies. This is of course much easier on LMP's that have a covered cockpit. ( roof )
Just some thoughts

A mid - engine is nice and if you build the model simply for fun or to try some different principles and techniques, it is a very interesting experiment. BUT as soon as you need a real racecar, the motor has to be where it has to be.....inline, or better angle -or sidewinder.

Nonetheless - in 32nd scale I built a Panoz with a PCB chassis. I was able to shift the motor 10 mm into chassis center direction and still could use the complete original FLY cockpit. These 10 mm made a totally different and really stunning handling car from the original vehicle. ...

Finally back to the motors once more. I think that the armature dimensions of H0 - slotcars, combined with a narrower can and endbell, would be small enough to build almost any 43rd scale car. The few really usable motors in small sizes just like from the MASHIMA brand ( esp. M-16/19/20 )

http://www.zephyr.dti.ne.jp/~katumi60/p00.html

are unfortunately quite expensive. Sold from the producer for - as an example - 8 Dollars, sold in the model railroad shop for 20 ( !!! ) dollars.....

Bye,

Roland

Ted

 

[amarcord]

QUOTE (Cjent1 @ 10 Apr 2012, 19:37) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>What is a Beardog, and where does it come from, amarcord?

sorry!!

came from "electric dream"... america,
Beardog / AB Slotsport parts
24.300 rpm for 10,29$
Shaft Dia 1,5 mm.
Width 15,5mm. Height 12mm. Length 18,7mm.

 

[amarcord]

QUOTE (Schackel @ 10 Apr 2012, 19:51) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Nice, but not what I intended to initiate with this thread. A motor that stands vertically in the chassis is absolutely counter - produvtive to the idea of getting flatter for being able to build the mentioned "open" cars as well.

I can not imagine that, if I have a real SCALE formula one car in 1/43rd, the body will fit onto this chassis/motor configuration. If a motor protrudes so much as in this chassis, I could also use 32nd scale motors and tweak the body a bit...
This is only my view of 43rd SCALE slotracing, no doctrine.

Roland

Hi Roland!!... sorry for d'not undestanding you!!
but... the last chassis is built for F1!... I built "under" F1 Lotus/Honda by Heller in 1/43

 

[masmojo]

There are a couple motor options out there that many may not have thought of. I have a couple E-Flite Helicopter motors, but they are not the ultra small rotor motors, more of the main rotor motor, they are slightly smaller around then a GO!/RS motor but a little longer, proportioned like the D-slot motor, just smaller I am seriosly considering one of these for my proxy entry even though I have never run one before (all the chips on the table!

)

Another option many may not have considered is HO and N gauge train motors. Some of these are the same motors we already use, BUT there are some other High end motors from Japan, I have bought a few, but I have not had a chance to try'em out yet. There are even Brushless Model train motors, but they cost more by themselve then one D-slot car! Many might think these motors too slow and it's been a couple year since I researched them, but many turn pretty quick, the main reason some may think they are slow is because many times trains use worm gears with tons of gear reduction. The motor itself is actually turning pretty fast! One additional attraction to some of the small train motors is that some of them are already set up for shaft drive. so theoretically you could position the motor in front of the cockpit of an open car and the shaft could turn the rear mounted gear!

I have not had time to test these, I may not have time to finish my car(s) before the race date, but maybe you guys can chew on that for me!?

 

[BeardogRacing]

A Beardog is a Mabuchi 030 can motor

 

[masmojo]

The biggest problem I have had with finding alternative motor's is finding pinions to fit!

 

[Schackel]

QUOTE (masmojo @ 11 Apr 2012, 17:55) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There are a couple motor options out there that many may not have thought of. I have a couple E-Flite Helicopter motors, but they are not the ultra small rotor motors, more of the main rotor motor, they are slightly smaller around then a GO!/RS motor but a little longer, proportioned like the D-slot motor, just smaller I am seriosly considering one of these for my proxy entry even though I have never run one before (all the chips on the table!

)

Another option many may not have considered is HO and N gauge train motors. Some of these are the same motors we already use, BUT there are some other High end motors from Japan, I have bought a few, but I have not had a chance to try'em out yet. There are even Brushless Model train motors, but they cost more by themselve then one D-slot car! Many might think these motors too slow and it's been a couple year since I researched them, but many turn pretty quick, the main reason some may think they are slow is because many times trains use worm gears with tons of gear reduction. The motor itself is actually turning pretty fast! One additional attraction to some of the small train motors is that some of them are already set up for shaft drive. so theoretically you could position the motor in front of the cockpit of an open car and the shaft could turn the rear mounted gear!

I have not had time to test these, I may not have time to finish my car(s) before the race date, but maybe you guys can chew on that for me!?

Have a look at the HP of MASHIMA ( see my answers ). There are just the motors you talk about. Mainly used for trains, but all parameters good for slotcars. Only the retail price .....

Roland

 

[Schackel]

QUOTE (amarcord @ 11 Apr 2012, 07:46) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hi Roland!!... sorry for d'not undestanding you!!
but... the last chassis is built for F1!... I built "under" F1 Lotus/Honda by Heller in 1/43

You´re right and it fits. But take one of the actual formula cars and it most probably won´t fit. of course there are still enough types that are high and wide enough behind the cockpit.

Roland

 

[masmojo]

QUOTE (Schackel @ 11 Apr 2012, 22:38) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Have a look at the HP of MASHIMA ( see my answers ). There are just the motors you talk about. Mainly used for trains, but all parameters good for slotcars. Only the retail price .....

Roland

O.K. I missed that link first time around, but even those are quite conventional, I have seen some that look more like Scalextric motors from the 60's, Open frames as well as a couple modern looking brushless motors, but in both cases they can be Pricey! Some of the hand wound Japaneese motors can cost $60 to $80. EACH!!!

Losi makes a small Brushless motor that might be able to fit in a slot car, 1/32 for sure, but maybe even 1/43; here again I want to say it's like $30 (?) and would probably require some advanced electronics to run properly.

 

[Lloyd.L]

Although I have little knowledge of HO racing, I understand that there are some very hot open frame motors used for serious racing in that scale. Does anyone know more about them?

Regards, Lloyd

 

[masmojo]

QUOTE (Lloyd.L @ 12 Apr 2012, 18:40) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Although I have little knowledge of HO racing, I understand that there are some very hot open frame motors used for serious racing in that scale. Does anyone know more about them?

Regards, Lloyd

I have used HO car motors in a couple of scratchbuilds, my main issue (and I would like to stress that as much as I worried about it, it was a Non issue in the last race) was that they use a very small pinion and the shaft in most HO motors is small as well. This is fine for a small HO car, but my Heller Mini, even though it has the footprint of an HO car was probably twice as heavy with it's brass chassis. That car was not run too much, but I fear that if run very much at all, I would have trouble keeping pinions on it! We used to have problems breaking/losing pinions on our HO cars when I was a kid, with 1/43 it's going to be twice as bad!!