SlotForum banner
1 - 20 of 210 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
923 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, here it is.
A few reed switches and some electronics and digital racing is as real as it comes. And no fiddling with that blasted "switch lane button".
Easy as pie; place the car, grab the controller and of you go. Nifty.


I've been looking for lane change since the eighties; that Carrera Servo 164 at "Domus" looked sooo fine. But what lad of ten could buy such a set?!
Many years went buy and all of a sudden there where multiple choices of digital track. Multiple cars per lane and lane changing too.
Hm... Something doesn't feel right about this. Slotcar is about "one lane, one car, one controller and one a lot of fun having racer".
Trying to time that lane change and keep a seriously good eye on other cars just doesn't cut it. It's fiddly and no closer to "more realistic" than ordinary slotcaracing (new word, I know *grin*).

But if we keep "multiple cars" and switch "lane change" to "overtaking" it start to sound better. especially if we add "regulated" to "overtaking"...
...and then look at real racing, then we might get even the most stubborn old grump to like this "new" slotcaracing!

The basic thought is that you change out to overtake. And switch back when you either has done so, or failed to do it.
In the video you can see how a car following another one close behind switch out to overtake. And then switch back when either overtaken or failed to do so.
In both cases only if the other lane is free enough to switch to. (oh yes, there's quite a few cases where the one trying to overtake is hanged out to dry, as he can't switch back in.

Enjoy!
 

·
Greg Gaub
Joined
·
14,984 Posts
Ok, so, like BLST, but using a different design, I guess.
So, where are the plans?
If it's not open to the public, how much does it cost?
And, can I install this in my 1:1 car so that I don't have to worry about managing my own overtaking while racing? ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,057 Posts
So you have figured out "overtaking" and it appears to also do "collision avoidance". Correct?


Sounds like an application of the DRS in the Formula One races.


Looking forward to more information on this "system" and whether it can be used on other brands of track.

Cheers!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,717 Posts
QUOTE (b.yingling @ 20 Sep 2011, 15:57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Is exactly what makes digital slots so darn much fun for some of us.
I'm with you, that's where the skill comes into digital racing otherwise you may as well race analogue.

Still very clever though, might be useful for beginners
 

·
Slot Car Racer and Builder
Joined
·
1,742 Posts
I like the idea I think it would add some more interest to digital. I haven't raced a lot of digital but did find that the lane changing is something you have to get used to, getting the timing right etc. I can understand how this would be part of the fun. Looking forward to finding out some more.

cheers
DM
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,717 Posts
It's very satisfying changing lane jus in front of someone leaving no gap between to ge the better racing line or squeeze down. Chicane
 

·
Tore
Joined
·
1,694 Posts
By using only a few single lane-changers any digital track can be setup so that you have overtaking and switch-back areas, and even pace cars that try to change lanes at random would seem to follow that pattern. The only difference I can see is that this track probably have the "Antikollision" chips for Carrera Digital that you can find on the German eBay.

But maybe there is more to this track? if so, then please enlighten us


Tore
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
577 Posts
Um, well, sounds like a good idea but takes all the fun out of it.
Plus there might be a car in the lane next to you which will cause an accident.

As we are running almost equal speed and handling cars (down to driver skills) I like to tail gate till I get the chance to change lanes myself or hang on the tail causing the other driver to panic and push harder through the corners and de-slot in front of me.


Cheers
 

·
Tore
Joined
·
1,694 Posts
QUOTE (Scootcar50 @ 21 Sep 2011, 03:31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>...Plus there might be a car in the lane next to you which will cause an accident....

That's what the "antikollision chip" prevents. It's a 3'rd party chip with a LED that you install in the Carrera LC's. When it detects a car in the other lane on the LC it automatically ignores lane changing commands to avoid crashing.

I guess a chip like that could be modified to also detect if a car is following another and then force the second car to change lanes. Maybe that is what he is trying to show us?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,057 Posts
OK Erik.
You have our attention....

Will you PLEASE tell us how you did it?


Cheers!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
923 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Good morning compadres, and a joy to see such eager response!
  1. It's my own design.
  2. It's both anti-collision and racing line¹.
  3. Most importantly, it works with any brand using solenoid driven points.
  4. It's designed to be installation friendly.
Now then, the questions and such raised....

Yes, I can see how timing a lane change is a big part of digital. And with MuCaRo you do that too.

Press closely and you steer out, leave half a car length between and the chased one surely know your skill is better than his.
With MuCaRo you can concentrate on driving, not where the button is and the need to press it and check to see if there's anyone blocking your path, when your attention is on the bend ahead.

All these disappear and you can concentrate on racing. Nifty, wouldn't you agree?


So what have I done then?

I've replaced the ordinary trigger with three sensors. And after a massive amount of testing I've settled for magnetic sensors.
The first sensor tell the point not to allow a switch, ie the Blocking car, the second is to tell it that your Car is there and might want to either to move out to overtake, if there's a Slow car in front of you, or change back after a previous change out.

And this follow the action in real racing surprisingly well.
¹What's hard to simulate exactly is the "dive on the inside on hard brakes". But that's due to inherent qualities if the slotcar track itself. Ie to keep a real life racing line you need an absurd amount of points... Like two for each set of corners; one from the outside into the apex and one from the apex out again. Incidentally the only system where this could be achieved is with SCXD, due too their cheap "no solenoid" points...!

So, the two main points...

A - MuCaRo offers a button free race, where you decide when to make your move.
B - It's an open source project ("GNU license") and I plan to have both sets and kits and schematics very soon.

nB - All cars in the videos are ghost cars. And a racing competent ghost car is another of my next projects.
 

·
Kev
Joined
·
2,723 Posts
Excellent Erik,
Yes, very nifty.


I can certainly see how this system would be of benefit when running ghost/pace cars.

There is nothing worse than setting up a 20lap race, to have a ghost/pace car cause an accident just 2 laps in


As for my car changing lanes, i like to be in control of that, but that is just my way. (control freak).


QUOTE A - MuCaRo offers a button free race, where you decide when to make your move.

Can you have it set so drivers make their own moves, and ghost/pace are intelligent?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
923 Posts
Thank you zipp. Happy to convert you...


Yes, you could separate trigger and sensor to that effect.
Ie so that all cars have anti-collision, S-car-Go's are regulated and driven cars are chaotic(!).
Hm, would that then be MuCaRC? o_O

As for controlled s-cars, this is Stage I with "move out to overtake and then return".
Stage II is to make them actually race.

And here's another video, with six cars and bigger layout.
I'll try get one of the point's action, so as to show how MuCaRo handles traffic more close and personal like.
 

·
Circuit Owner
Joined
·
5,913 Posts
Sorry to appear negative but I don't like the way the driver has all decision making taken away from him.

If you watch the video closely the black car (the one with no lights) goes from last to first to last. The system seems to force cars to pull out when close to the car in front. This is OK if there are just 2 in the battle.

BUT watching the video when there are three cars close to each other the middle one is forced to the outside, overtaking lane which immediately allows the third car to push up slightly and take second place as it forces the overtaking car to stay out on the longer lane for a few laps.

This encourages a second place car being pressed by a third place NOT to press the leading car because the driver will soon learn that to try this will guarantee a loss of position.

In real racing you would want to pick your moment to overtake. In the middle of a three car sandwich I would prefer to wait until the third car made an overtaking move to pull out to block or decide to stay in (depending on how fast the lead car was going).

In a four car sandwich it is even worse as this system seems to force the second car to pull out and the 3rd and 4th car to push up. This hangs second place out to dry and it has to wait until it can pull back in, in last place.

If you don't like a button to press to change lanes - why not have a button to press to NOT change lanes?!? This would allow you to decide when to take advantage of the automatic overtaking facility and puts some intelligence back in to the racing.

An override button would help avoid frustration.

Perhaps I'm missing something but as far as I see it analogue racing is more a personal time trial, you just happen to be starting the time trial at the same time as one or more other competitors. The way to win is to ignore the competition and concentrate on getting your car around the track as quickly as you can. It's you against the track designer. Every lap is PREDICTABLE.

Digital racing is real mix-it-up-and-fight-it-out racing and is a DIFFERENT GAME COMPLETELY. It's all about awareness, it requires far more attention and thought than a time trial because it is UNPREDICTABLE - you often gain advantage by ignoring the racing line and taking the pragmatic line to frustrate other racers' attempts to overtake.

I haven't had enough track time in both disciplines to make a definitive observation BUT it appears to me that an analogue race is way less demanding on the driver's attention than digital.

Sorry MuCaRO but I feel your system is trying to make digital racing more predictable and that destroys the whole point for me.

HOWEVER IT'S NOT ALL BAD - I CAN SEE SOME VALUE

I can see its value as a new form of strategic racing and I reckon it would work really well with teams in a sort of pursuit style race (like you get in cycling on indoor tracks). Two teams of 3 cars could have a real battle of wits, using the "rules" of the lane change logic to their advantage in a quest to get all of their team across the line first - you might have to set a minimum throttle level to avoid slowing down tactics or remove magnets to allow cars to fishtail slow ones off the track!!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
923 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
@ zipp ~ Look at the four plus previous minutes of undisturbed racing instead...


@ 1 32 slotter ~
~ No mods needed for the car chip. There might be a need to add a minute magnet in the car, just to boost the trigger signal, but the motor should be enough.
~ MuCaRO tie into all digital systems, that use a solenoid-driven point, ie all but SCXD. At least I expect hat to be the case!

@ zipp ~
 
1 - 20 of 210 Posts
Top