My first and brief comment would be on the practicalities of using a brass guide, the only track system where there would not be a potential for electrical problems would be Ninco.
I invite Tim to join us here and provide a thread within 'scratchbuilding' to further advance his aims and discuss this very promising project in detail.
Mecoprop could you maybe pass this invite on please?
I will add a link to Slot Car Heroes within our new links page that will be going in next week.
All these new products and accessories are a sure sign that the Hobby is growing well - Congratulations guys! it's ALL good news for us addicts ehh?
First I want to say that I'm honored and pleased that you've taken an interest in my new chassis design---THANK YOU !!!
About the metal guide pin-- I imediately saw the problem last night and it's already resolved. Plastic/or nylon 2mm pins will be provided along with the metal guide pin...
At this time, the chassis design is ready for production. My first minium order is for 200 units. The due-date for public release is mid to late November (depends on the fabricator). As the time draws near, I can give a more precise date.
This chassis design was developed from the input of readers on the SCI message board. It was truely a community effort that helped define what the design is today.
Because of the large up-front capital expense, I'm looking for some pre-orders so that I know there is "confirmed" interest from the global public. If no pre-orders are received, then there is a good chance I may have to cancel this project. So any input from members of this board is GREATLY APPRECIATED.
I am not overly fond of pin guides either.
In spite of the fact that TSRF uses them too, and they do eliminate certain problems, I just don't feel comfortable with almost no insulated separation between the braids. As I recall, the early Scalextric models used pin type guides and fairly soon abandoned them for the now standard swivelling 'T'.
However I have no reservations at all regarding plastic axle bushings - as long as they fit, of course - and I am sure they do.
As for lateral location of the back axle, I am a confirmed believer in not using the gears and motor bushings for this job! I think Slot Car Heroes made exactly the right decision in fitting a set screw gear that has to be properly spaced - it will save a lot of undue stress on both gears and motor shaft. It also makes it much easier to change wheels and gears and, if properly carried out, both are less liable to spin on the back axle.
Guide Pin Configuration: With the braids set to the proper length, the risk of short circuit is very low. if the car spins or drifts that car out, one contact is on a rail, the other is in the slot. I've tried to manually create a short circuit, and the only way it can happen is with the braids set too far behind the pin.
Ummm... not sure where the wheel comment came from. I'm using TSRF wheels and tires on this chassis.
Inline configuration: not sure this is so much of a problem. There's many manufacturers out there still using inlines (i.e. Ninco, MRRC, Vanquish, Carrera, Revell, etc) They don't seem to have a problem with interior details... but maybe I'm wrong.
And the nylon bearings... again, lot's of manufacturers (still) using them. There's two reasons I chose nylon; first is the cost consideration. This stems from the original design discussion in the "bits and pieces" thread on the SCI message board. People want an inexpensive adjustable chassis. I've had to watch my budget carefully, and the bronze bearings were just too highly priced.
The second consideration was maintenance. Nylon just plain outlives bronze when rubbing against steel, and less lubrication is required. I don't see nylon bearings disappearing too quickly on other slot cars, so I'm comfortable with my decision. However, if you do prefer bronze, you can purchase them through any dealer/distributor and still go with one of my chassis. And in the future, I may offer Bronze bearings as an upgrade.
About pin-guides - I personally have not seen one up to today which is working properly on differnt tracks - and I'm driving routed / Carrera / Ninco with the same cars! Im not a friend of too long braids - but have seen short circuits to know that they have to been avoided if you're supplying battery power to the track - you're just welding down your car!
For inline-configuration - look at the actual cars - motor moved to the front to allow fully detailled cockpits! I would expect, that your chassis should replace the ones used in rtr-cars - and the biggest need is for replacing Fly-chassis - imho...
Most of these cars are sidewinders or inline-front....
If you're usind the TSRF-wheels and parts it's fine! They are on teh same level like slot-it!
But about Nylon-bearings - they are too weak and won't last! A well maintained car with brass bearings is always faster! Would you invest for a new chassis if the exchange of Nylon to brass-bearings is cheaper and makes your car faster?
It's my opinion - based on my personal experience - and should help you to release a useable chassis! Best way to do that is to discuss within the different communities - and that's welcomed! Go on like that!
Well... we all have our opinions on the guide pin... and I can accept that. I should point out that there is enough material up front on the chassis to convert to a standard guide flag if one would like to pursue that route.
However, I would like to point out a couple of historical references, if I may. One, HO scale cars have been using guide pins for over 40 years. Of course, their track rails are designed differently, however the pickup shoes on the bottom of the cars are pretty wide and long... they don't seem to have trouble.
Secondly... and this was just brought back to my attention by someone who's signed up for two rolling chassis; one of the most prolific and revered slot "legends" of all time, the late Jose Rodriguez Jr. used guide pins on nearly all his 1/32 scratch builts. And Monogram's late 60's 1/32 set cars used guide pins.
On the motor and chassis... the wheelbase is adjustable from 2.75" to 3.626" (about 69cm to 92cm) Difficult to mount the motor up front with this ability.
I'm sorry... on your next issue... I'm unclear what you're asking. Would I re-design the chassis if I found cheaper bronze bearings? Or are you refering to if someone purchased a new chassis and would they upgrade to bronze bearings?
Well... first of all... no re-design is necessary. If you know a source where I can find bronze bearings cheaper than Nylon, I would love to hear about it.
And for the second part I would say it depends on how the chassis is used... if bronze bearings were needed or not.
During the "Bits and Pieces" discussion on the SCI message board, people mostly want a chassis to fit their static models, resin casts, or vacuum-formed bodies. The discussion never seemed to be about replacing a chassis on existing RTR's. If that were the case, the chassis would have been designed completely different.
Gentlemen... the whole idea behind this chassis is to offer something to those who might never venture into scratch building a chassis for themselves... but would love to motorize their favorite model.
I don't make elaborate claims that this chassis is the "be-all, end-all" of chassis. It is a product with a simple design scope that may offer something inexpensive and attractive to people just venturing into the hobby.
If you're a racer that's been in the field a long time, you're probably not going to be interested in this product. But if you want something fun and different to try, by all means try it. It's a good quality product, and I stand behind it.
Could a piece of horizontally flexible, but vertically stiff plastic be put behind the pin to prevent shorting? I have been thinking of this for a while and have just not built it yet. The plastic bends but the braid never touches.
Hi Dan !!
Are you thinking of using the guide pin as a pivot for the plastic "shim", and the shim would trail behind the pin? I suppose that could work... but I'm not certain (yet) how one might make the part(s). Seems the guide pin would function much like a hinge pin does on a door. The shim would have to have a sleeve that fits around the guide pin...
The more I think on this, the guide pin would have to be narrower... it's already 2mm. Don't think there is enough material in a plastic pin to make this work. If the guide pin were metal, and completely insulated by the sleeve on the shim, and the thickness of the shim and sleeve kept to 2mm, it would work. I think there's some hinge parts offered in the construction of Radio Controlled airplanes, the hinges for the ailerons might do the trick... if they're narrow enough.
Hi Tim ,why dont you enter a "works" car in next years ALMS proxy races it would be a good test for your product and show the world how well it stands up and performs ,We will be releasing details of what when and where pretty soon .
Hi Graham !!!
Your last name wouldn't be "Bates", would it?
Yes... that would be sooo COOOL !!! I'd be happy to send a car/chassis or two to somebody that wants to race them on my behalf. Let me know the details when you can.
OK Tim I'll copy you in on the rules when weve sorted them but as a taster take a look at this years UK RACES
Basic rules are hard body(style to be decided) ,motor up to fox spec sponge tyres and I/16" clearance exept for UK where 1/32" is ok ,Races are to be held in the US , Tasmania,UK and hopfully Switzerland.
Hi Graham !
Thanks for the info! I look forward to receiving the details. My appologies on the last name... I should have visited your website first. Thought you might be a customer that purchased some wears of mine last summer.
just to adding my 2 cents.... I have been running the TSRF chassis on my routed track for a while now and have seen no shorting problem with the pin guide set up.. and the same is true while running it on the plastic tracks......
I think the main reason for this is 1) keeping the braid at the right length. and that the center section of the chassis is not metal......
But there is away around this on a metal chassis..... I do a lot of scratch building and use the Slot-it reouted track guide a lot...... but the guide and braid extend under the bottom of the chassis..... So to stop any shouting I just clear coat the bottom of the chassis and I have not had a short to date.......
After looking at that chassis I have no problem with the pin guide set up and to cure any shorting issues I would just paint or clear coat the botton of the chassis..
I know that it has worked for me.........
Although you are largely right, Chris, doesn't it depend quite a lot on the particular track and the gap between rails? I don't have measurements to hand but, where Carrera would have a largish gap, Scalextric and SCX have a small one and no insulation between them, only that small gap. I would think this could make a difference. HO is more foolproof in having extremely thin rails that are widely separated and the pick ups are spring mounted rigid skids rather than flexibraids. Some HO guys even adapt their cars to use orthodox 1/32 style guides - there has to be a reason why they would do this.
My limited experience with TSRF 1/32 pin guide leads me to believe that it is more susceptible to the exact set up of the braid and isn't fond of keeping the cars under power when they get their back ends out of line, compared with a standard swivel blade. However, this does depend VERY much on the radius of the curves and my comments are based on homeset plexytrack of standard radius. It almost certainly doesn't apply on wide radius curves and this is where some of the disagreement is created, where some guys are on small radius and others on large - the experience is going to be different.
So far I have run the TSRF on my routed track, not a big layout only 43 foot 4 lane track, A commercial track and on Carrera, Ninco/Scalex classic mix.... And have not had problems with contact or shorting on any of them...
The braid spreads out a good deal and makes good contact on all the tracks....
But you do bring up a good point on the tail out driving.... Yes, you have to drive the car a bit different than with a regular guide set up..... You have to LEARN the max you can slide the car out...... Once you go too far the car just stops..... Not for shorting reasons but you have lost contact with the braids..... Once you learn the limits of the car, it is almost as fast as my scratch built chassis on my routed track...
<<Some HO guys even adapt their cars to use orthodox 1/32 style guides - there has to be a reason why they would do this.>>
I think the reason that some of the HO guys go with the "Slide guide" system is to be able to run on 1/32 tracks..... I tired one on my routed track and the damn cars are just too small for these old eyes to see
I am surprized that BWA has not chimed in yet on the guide pin idea.
He has used with some sucess the red plastic hollow tubing used with spray cans of lubricant such as comes with WD-40. That is pressed up around a metal pin soldered to the chassis up above. They are easliy replaced, though he says he has not worn any out yet. They make a great insulator from braid contact or rail contact. I must have 20 of them 4 to 6 inches in length laying around here in drawers etc.
This project is important to me... today I purchased an SCX starter set for the purposes of testing my chassis design with plastic guide pins and testing the braids. Today I tested two choices of plastic guide pins and wrote a report. Please click HERE to read the report and see some pictures of the tests.
I used my original prototype chassis and outfitted it with Carrera tires, and rims that I made just for testing.
I hope this report helps answer some questions, and maybe opens the floor to other questions.
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