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Bill
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Well, after my visit with SpaModeller, I did some major rethinking of my rally track design taking into consideration many comments and suggestions from the earlier thread on SF. And, (Ian don't shoot me), I've reworked it considerably losing 3 m. (10ft.) in length, but making for a better track overall. It will be built on three seperate tables for a total of about 11x6' (4x6 + 3x6 + 4x6) and a track length of about 65ft. (21 m.). It will be basically designed on SSD for 4 drivers (although it would be interesting to test out more). Here's where I'm at:


KEY: Red marks Bridges (three of which have been built already and seen in earlier thread)
Gray Lines in the upper right are walls for the old Italian walled town.

There are still some lingering issues, like where to put XLCs (lane changes). I've got three, but the plan only has two for now.
 

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Hmmm

I dont quite know why...
but this design just "instantly" appeals to me.

Frosty
 

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Will there be plenty of elevation towards the back (I hope) and waterfalls or fast water from the lake down to the sea


Frosty
 

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Bill
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
QUOTE (snowmanf @ 28 Aug 2006, 17:35) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Will there be plenty of elevation towards the back (I hope) and waterfalls or fast water from the lake down to the sea

Frosty

The tentative elevations are on the plan. The highest point will be about 18" (.6m) near the back, but the back short straight is slightly lower, already beginning to descend into the town.
 

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Ian
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Bill,
Overall simpler circuit but will be still great to drive it has a fantastic Flow to it.
Maybe you should start a collection of Rally cars to go with your Mini's as they will love it! (Your first should be the Ninco Mitsubishi Lancer.)
Does this mean you are doing away with the crossover, favouring a bridge, in the village section that's got to be better - fewer accidents.

I am glad to see that the pits are still an option because you know you "will" add them at a later stage. (Though I must admit I am considering removing mine! Not the track sections but the F1 Look pits. I don't race F1 Cars but still buy them, to sit in the pits??? I may just landscape that area Rally Style with some kinds of cut through. Then again we do pit and refuel when racing endurance????????).

Your preparation for this track can not be faulted, I'm sure when it does eventually emerge, it will be a real beauty.

Regards

Ian
 

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Bill
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QUOTE (SpaModeller @ 28 Aug 2006, 17:06) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Now,.......about that moat..........

Not really sure about a moat ... never seen one in Tuscany of Sicily. You'll have to convince me on this one.

QUOTE (bleep @ 29 Aug 2006, 00:24) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Maybe you should start a collection of Rally cars to go with your Mini's as they will love it! (Your first should be the Ninco Mitsubishi Lancer.)
Does this mean you are doing away with the crossover, favouring a bridge, in the village section that's got to be better - fewer accidents.

I'm collecting 50s and 60s era cars, with a special eye toward those that raced in the old European races like the Targa Florio, Mille Miglia, or the Old Spa. Of course, it doesn't take long to break the budget with these...

Yes, I did away with the crossover, but mostly because I needed to negotiate elevations better and the 90º crossover was too limiting in the design. But it will also have the advantage of fewer accidents.
 

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Bill
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Following a suggestion of SpaModeller, I tried a single lane through the town. But I don't think it works for racing purposes. I don't think I want to restrict the racing to one lane again because the track is too short for another single lane. Opinions may differ?

 

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QUOTE (jmswms @ 29 Aug 2006, 11:12) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Following a suggestion of SpaModeller, I tried a single lane through the town. But I don't think it works for racing purposes. I don't think I want to restrict the racing to one lane again because the track is too short for another single lane. Opinions may differ?



Come on Forum members-don't let me down! My arguments for the single track are really four-fold; first, makes the race for the lead into town a more interesting proposition, secondly, keeps the openings into and out of town to a single lane-which visually works better for me given that there isn't a lot of horizontal surface to the wall, thirdly, reduces the risks associated with two-lane racing in the middle of town (I refer to another thread on this forum regarding 'scenery' getting in the way and marshals knocking over the houses to get the car back in the slot) and lastly, gives a bit more room for those 'town' related items, like folks sitting out in front of the cafe, the fruit vendor, etc. But I await the verdict of the jury.
 

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Ian
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First off, FZS a moat is an area of water usually man made around a castle as a means of defence.

As for the single lane or not I'm with Bill his judgement hasn't let me down, if he says two lane then two lane it is!
Lets face it he doesn't rush into things, every step he makes is well contemplated, and he hasn't done a bad job so far! Though I understand Spa Modellers' reasoning I'm with Bill to keep the flow of the track.

Regards

Ian
 

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Just a thought .. if it´s okey to toss around wild ideas [?]

As this is a Walled-In-Village, hows about a side-entrance .. as a reroute or detour, you decide. I´d agree about the one lane entry/exit to and from village. A twolane gate could easily dwarf the short pieces of wall.

But if the innermost, slightly crumbeled corner of the wall also had a smallish gate [or an opening] too, just enough for a car to pass. And the Village Square had arcades, so the car passing in and out would run behind them, thus --



With a LC prior entrance to Village you could either choose ´around the square´-mode or ´arcade´-mode. One of them slower perhaps? And if the square was single lane, you could add some pavement and have room for some cafe chairs. The arcade would only need room/depth for a car to pass, and could be made of low-relief two/three storeys buildings ..

Moat .. now that would be an interesting feature .. As I live in a town that has had and still has such. Some three-four hundred years ago [this is europe] most coastal towns were built like fortresses, with thick outer walls for protections. Against the enemy, invasions, gangrene, werewolfs, you name it. Everyone going in or out of town had to pass through the towngates. And on outside the wall was the moats, filled with water. Why? Well, it was thought that if an enemy wanted to invade, he´d had to ´cross the moat´ in some fashion. And doing that he´d be bombarded with boilin oil, rusty nails, rotten vegetables, flying cows [I´ve seen it .. on film. Honest!] Later they were found to be suitable as town sewer, but that´s a different story.

But all walls crumble to dust. And they were also used to fill the moats [and some channels too. That´s a dutch feature!], then they finally put on a blacktop and voilá, the Avenues were born.

-( R )-
 

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Here's my thoughts for what they're worth...

two options for the entry into town
1. stay with two lanes, after all the side wall is viewed at more of an angle anyway;
2. split the road and have two separate arches into the town which then join up again

next as you round the curve in town it narrows to one lane then exits through the front wall as one lane.

Probably a nightmare for marshalling though! hmmmm


I do like the idea of single lane for the front wall as its more obvious.

Also, goood point about having too much single lanes... on that...

I would widen out to two lanes sooner after the hairpin.

[oh wait, i cant remember if you're routing or using track pieces, so my ideas may be moot in the latter case if they're not doable]

Wish this helps but it probably just adds to the confusion


Frosty
 

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Bill
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Wow, so many great ideas. I do want to build a driveable track, though. I thought this was a brilliant idea:

QUOTE (rain_man @ 29 Aug 2006, 14:11) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Working it out with plastic track (cutting pieces of course) is a bit tough, but doable. I'm not ready for integrating routed and plastic just yet (wait until the third track, I say to myself). Here's a couple ways of implementing Rainman's suggestion (sorry, forgot to put the XLC leading into the split into two roads):

OPTION 1: (essentially what Rainman suggests)


OPTION 2: (is this what you were suggesting Snowmanf?)


To me, the down side of Option #1 is that the outside lane (which I'd make run along the top of the inner wall of the city) would be much faster than the route through the town. Option #2 might be more even, but probably still wouldn't even out the two paths. Both of these are really fun looking, but how practical are they?
 

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I'm such a natural trouble maker so naturally I was thinking something even more difficult.

I agree the first one will mean no-one evergoes through town.
2nd is better.
Of course if the last lc is before those 3 corners that may help as, to take the bypass you have to go on the outside for 2 of 3 corners.
or how about extending the outside lane on the corner in white... thus adding to the counterbalance of that lane.

In my concept the top lane turns 90 degrees right and rejoins the other to reform a 2 laner thus they both do the loop which then leads under for the exit.

The other prob with version 2 is a 2 lane exit to the south??? wall [assuming north to the top] which is what a couple of us mentioned before about appearances.

In my concept they merge into one lane or perhaps a chicane to go through the wall thus improving appearances. I do concede that this may lead to an accident spot and marshalling hassles.

my thoughts

Frosty
 

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Bill
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Okay, now we're just having fun. Here's Option #3. I think I'd really have to route this --I'd be too hard to mess with cutting up plastic track. But in th is version, we split the track and it goes on both sides of the fountain and rejoins outside the town walls. This way I get my XLC in before the front straight, which I think is important for a digital layout. ... But truth be told, I'm still favoring the simplicity of the original layout.

 

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Yes I prefer the earlier style because you get to do a hotdog before leaving town
 

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Bill
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It's been a while since I updated everyone on my new track build. It will be going along slowly, but I'll try to give some periodic updates. My three tables (4'x6') are built (total 12'x6'), and I'm experimenting with the elevations, textures, and scratch building a few things. I'll start with the left hand table and the first thing is a small bridge which a river will run under out to the ocean and the track will go over. Here's the latest work on this bridge over the R. Imera that will go along the front straight. Basically, I'm making lots of little plaster building blocks and gluing them together around a light frame.

Here's the process:


This is where it's eventally going to end up. You can see another bridge (built and discussed earlier) behind it.


I'm also experimenting with textures for a pier scene. The staircase leading down to the water was built with the same Hirst Arts molds and plaster blocks. I'll probably have it set up again a rock wall and add a wood retaining wall as well.


And, I've done some basic work framing out a tunnel that will go above the bridge and pier scene:


The Plan has been a subject of discussion on SF, and I appreciate the input. I'm working on the left hand side first, and it will probably continue to evolve as the build progresses from left to right.
 
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