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Hi

I really like the Ninco Mclarens from the outside but insides another matter !!
I need help to upgrade one to the very best it can be
Ok this is what i need help with I want to start a fresh with everything except the body shell and chassis
1st the motor whats the best option ?
2nd the pinion and crown and axle
3rd wheels and tyres rear (like the idea of alloy )
4th front axle very sloppy ! what can be done with this ? also what wheels and tires again (alloy)

would really appreciate all the help possible im fairly new to this !!!
Set up is for routed track
 

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before you start anything add plastic?braces between the rear axle and motor to cure the flex in this area, or it never will run right. the motor is down to what charictaristics you want,eg torque and rpm. see motor list for info on most of todays motors. slot it axle crown pinions and bearings seem the most popular choice,but theres lots of other combo,s. set it up with standard ratio first, then change the motor pinion up and down a tooth, till the timer lets you know which is quickest for your track. then fine tune it with the number of teeth on the rear axle. slot it nsr and a host of other makes, all do alloy wheels and inserts for this car. i,ve found the best way to cure the front axle slop is to use a full length brass tube and glue it in place with the guide and braid fully in the slot and the front wheels just touching the track. theres a quick way to set up this effect to see if you like it. just glue a thin strip of plastic above and below the front axle to stop the rock and hold the wheels at the right height. tyres now thats open ended, basically nsr extemes glued trued and treated are the quickest rubber tyres, then you have urethane,s in various grades that are quick also, then you have silicones which are quick also, but they and the track must be clean, or they lose grip quickly.if your fairly new to all this and run with magnets, just do the mods to the axles and bracing the rear,oil the tyres with 3in1 or wd40and watch that baby fly now. john
 

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Stoner's advice is all sound, (albeit, flaming hard to read), but I prefer never to give advice until the situation and desired end result are understood better.

You need to tell us
- what kind of tracks will the car run on - including surface type esp. if wood, size including typical length of straights
- How clean are they kept - affects choice of tyres especially
- Do you race against other hobbyists - what sort of cars do they run, and how are they set up
- Do you have club rules
- How much are you prepared to spend
 

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i found it okay to read, then i did write it. slot cracrazy is dead right. i sort of just assumed you were a rug racer and newish to the hobby. how quick do you want to go? just like full size racing it could cost you a lot of money. probably double the amount you paid for the car,and thats just for the pleasure of being in with a shout at club level. i write like i talk, fast with a london accent, sorry about that but most people get the general idea. as to the assuming bit, i,m afraid the mouths open before the brain gets into gear. it gets in sync eventually, but as i,m a one finger typist i have to get it down quickly so i dont forget what i,m talking about. old age gets us all eventually. i do try to give sound advise and not take the peanuts, so you,l just have to read it twice and forgive the odd typo and spelling errors.john ----------- peanuts wasn,t the word i wrote it just popped up when iposted. didn,t realise it was on the send me to hell list.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
View attachment algarve_Model__1_.pdf
Thanks Stoner & Slotcrazy
Stoner
Not sure i understand the bracing can you explain a bit more ?

Slotcrazy
Track is routed with recess and the braid is magnabraid
The track is BLST and i will try to upload pdf. All dimensions are in cm hope this gives some idea of corners and straights etc
I will be running with magnets
As for the surface on the mdf not sure yet but would be happy to take your advice
The track will be kept very clean (i read about mixing tires that rubber picks up on silicone so would prefer to run rubber i think)
I dont race against other hobbiest at present but may do in the future
No club rules
In terms of how much it will cost i dont mind within reason i just want to see what the car can do with a little help !!

Appreciate your time and comments
many thanks

Dave
 

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okay, the bracing is essential on a ninco because the flex between the motor and rear axle causes a phenominum called ninco hop. i assume[again] that its inline, but the same applies to side and anglewinder set ups. take a piece of paper insert it on the chassis between the axle bearing holder and the upright face off the motor mount, mark a line from the top of the axle bearing holder across to the motor mount,then mark a line round the bearing holder along the base and up the motor mount to the height of the line youv,e drawn across the top. cut it out. transfer it to a piece of 1/16 plastic or plasticard and cut it out very closely. do the same for the other side and glue them in place. i i use a 2 part polyester resin. others use different glues! perhaps they,ll chime in and tell you.go to the top slots n trains site because the nsr spares and king motors are all on offer. for a complete setup including king motor expect to pay around £47 and thats the offer prices. look on pendles one of the forums sponsers for prices to compare. hope you understood that as i use fingers and hands to explain something. best of luck john.
 

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If you want the fastest McLaren then I would ditch all the Ninco undercarriage and use a TSRF chassis. It fits perfectly and TSRF mounts can be easily glued to each side for easy removal 2 screw attachment. The "Club" version comes with quality parts so you won't have to spend any extra money for motor,wheels,gears,etc.

Some people don't like the pin guide setup but it works fine for me. If that's a deal breaker you can make a simple mod so that a standard guide can be used. I think there are procedures on the TSRF site. ( http://www.tsrfcars.com/ ).

I have 3 TSRF chassis that have been in service forever. They are practically bullet proof and only on plastic can my NSR and Slotit cars stay close because the motor I use is too "hot" for my small track. Since the motor is an FK-130 type there are many cheap replacements with less rpms that can make the chassis work quite well on plastic.

One of the great things about this chassis is once you set it up it is about the easiest to drive consistently fast, even for old guys like me. Another thing is that you can configure several different kinds of car bodies with TSRF mounts and can switch the chassis (adjusting the wheel base as necessary) in a couple minutes. I use McLaren, NSR Ford MKIV, BMW LMP, an old FLY Porsche908 and SCX Corvette bodies so I can race several catagories. One problem which is not the chassis fault is that many clubs have a "plastic" only rule for chassis so the TSRF may not be allowed.

I would say that a TSRF chassis with 30k rpm motor and high (numerical) gear ratio (I think 11:48 is highest) would be just right on your track.

Jimmy
 

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Hee hee Stoner, - glad you have a good sense of humour..... no undue criticsm intended.

I type so many typos myself as I 2-finger-peck I usually take 3 attempts at editing it to read like I wasn't a grade 1 dropout.....

Wookie - nice layout. Okay, so you're going to be driving with some mag downforce, but it won't be very high unless you're loading up with extra magnets.

Funnily enough, I am in process of building a digital/analogue dual function track for use with oXigen, and considering incorporating an anti-collision system for switching on and off depending upon current driver abilities. It will also be magna-braid.
I talked briefly to the BLST guy but didn't really get too far, I guess his english is limited, so am just hoping to use simple anti-collision when the person has tested it for SSD and O2.

Anyway, enough of my drivel, I am actually planning to use exactly these same Ninco McLaren cars in the system because I have found they have quite benign handling for drivers of all abilities. - This is normally non-magnet on my analogue track but I will add some small magnets again for the digital track. - Fortunately I own enough of these neat little cars to have two sets


I mostly only run them with the standard NC-1 or NC-8 motors, and in this case they do not need bracing, so long as I glue and true the tyres, and use the old "super-glue collar" to remove the slop in the axle bush.

For a higher powered car, the bracing as stoner describes is very important.

A couple of shots below showing a standard car and one with bracing.
The hot glue on top of the modified car was to hold the motor steady, but under that is the epoxy resin which secures the length-wise bracing, which was done using bass-wood. Brass or alloy tube, L-section or other similar brace materials can also be used, but avoid plastic tube as it isn't really rigid enough.
This car below only has lengthwise bracing, and it works fine with this high torque 25K NSR motor, but usually it is good to also make a diagonal brace between the top of each axle bush as well, back to the centre of the car, - say the top of the motor, - A u-shape bracket going to both sides is better than individual braces, and I use solid brass or piano-wire (steel) rod for this, and mount it using a very rigid epoxy such as the american "JB Weld" which sets completely inflexible and can be sanded with a dremel etc; whereas most epoxies set "stiff" but soften a little with heat and may still allow some flex.



 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi all thanks for all your responses

Jimmy
appreciate all your comments and might try that in the future but for now i think that ( as im a novice ) ill stick with the plastic chassis
Stoner and Slotcrazy
Appreciate the time youve taken to walk me through the ninco hop issue between Stoners description and slotcrazys description and pics
i think ive got it


Once ive done the chassis work . What suggestions do you have for the upgrades i detailed at the start ?
If you could be specific with parts etc would really appreciate it as i said before bit of a novice !
Lastly if you have any pics relating to how to address the front axle issues that would be great

Once again i really do appreciate all three of you spending the time to help

Dave

ps Slotcrazy ive had some very amusing email conversations with David Caille (blst) and i think he has a great sense of humour but sometimes the language is a problem although when i spoke to him on the phone his english was very good overall . A really nice guy ! cant wait for him to finish the track only 6-8 weeks then a year or two for me to set it up !!!
 

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Wookie, that looks like a very exciting track. Those BLST tracks are a joy, the racing line crossovers in your track look like you could have some thrilling dices .
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Sez

yes i will once ive figured it all out


Snurfen

I really like blst the way the cars flow as they would in reality I know it isnt everybodys cup of tea as much as analogue and digital clash blst i think is somewhere inbetween. Ill hopefully post some pics/progress when i start to assemble it .(will be a while thou !
)
Thanks for the comments
Regards
Dave
 

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Hi Dave

depending on the age of your McLarens you may have an NC-1 or an NC-5 motor in them.
I don't really understand why you think you need to start afresh.
You could easily spend more than the price of the car on upgraded parts, but that in istelf may not acheive the end result you desire.

If NC-5, I'd encourage you to work with the motor you have at least to begin with, if NC1 you may want to upgrade to an s-can motor of about 6 to 10 watts max.
The NC-5 motor is medium torque, lowish revs, but on your BLST track, I can't see you'll need any more power, it will just make the cars harder to drive in a small design.

The drive train can be made smooth without any parts change, but if you decide to change, then you will remove the entire axle bush, axle, gear and wheels, and use more common 2.37/2.38mm axles etc.

Slot.it make a excellent "kits" for such inline replacement, which are a bit cheaper than buying the same parts individually
KK01 has their "small hub" wheel and KK07 the large hub. Depending upon which tyres you choose as in width and OD, you may elect either of those kits. (outside diameter)

Talk to your local slot retailer, but my suggestion is the new N22 soft/sticky" rubber tyre with either kit
The tyres can fit either size hub to give you an OD of 19.9mm on the small hubs, or 21.1mm on the large hubs, so check what OD suits you under those wheel arches, and what ground clearance it will create. You may however want to use a different wheel insert as the ones included in the kits are a bit boring...

Front wheels just choose to match whhatever you put on the back.

Or you could buy busings, axles,crown gear and wheels as parts, and choose any alloy wheel from the likes of Slot.it, Sloting Plus, NSR and others.
Note - NSR axles are 2.37mm and their wheels tightly sized to the same, Slot.it are 2.38, so if you use NSR wheels on Slot.it axles, you need to ream them out slightly. OI do this imply by holding the wheel with an axle in my dremel or an electric drill and hold firmly till it spins through. - sounds brutal, but it works.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks for the advice slotcrazy

Couple of questions

I bought 6 Ninco Mclarens from spain and the 3 i have here are all NC2 motors the models are A Day off - Franck Muller & Art Sports
the others are Fina-Jacadi & Lack two of the motors are black one red what are your thoughts on these motors ?
Any ideas on front axle how to make it more stable

Thanks again
Dave
 

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Hi Dave

okay, sounds like they may have done some motor swaps at some stage, or I've had some motor swaps on ones I bought 2nd hand myself, as I didn't realise some modeles came with NC2.

NC2 with BLACK can is about 80% the power of NC5, NC2 with red can is about the same power as NC5, - most folk think Ninco just bought a more powerful motor which had the the red wrapping, then "created" the NC5 by changing the woolly jumper for one branded "5"

You may want a little more grunt than the 2s, but they are probably quite salable to some hobbyists who want to match up motors themselves -you may be able to do swaps through the trade section here.......

CHEAP way to stabilise the front axle - regardless of which it is, is to re move the axle and oil it along it's whole length -(avoid getting any on the chassis, or wipe off thoroughly!), wipe off surplus from axle; re-fit it; then sit the car on a setup block - or just a section of track and squirt plenty of hot glue just inside the axle mounts and onto the chassis.
The glue will set on the axle holder and floor of the chassis, but as it gets solid, spin the axle. Due to the oily axle, the glue won't stick to the axle, PRESTO, one perfectly aligned and leveled axle, while all 4 feet of the car sit neatly on the track.

More technical way - sleeve the axle with a bit of brass tube. Sit car on track as previous, epoxy the axle in place using the axle holders, any plastic support blocks or whatever you fancy.....
tip - if you can buy JB Weld and JB Quick n the UK, I find these better to use than the usuall clear epoxys, and you can sand, drill and grind it later if required. I use it lots....

Super pro way, buy SlotCarCorner axle mount blocks, fit them to the chassis and use the adjustable grub screws to level it for the track.
http://www.slotcarcorner.com/Adjustable-Fr...Mounts-p56.html They even make 2 versions, one for Ninco axles and one for 2.38mm (3/32nd to the Americans)
 

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These were first made about 12 years ago so they are very old models. These are very poor performers in comparison to modern models, so don't expect miracles whatever you do. The rear end has almost no grip so they slide around all over the place and record awful lap times.

Firstly, ignore everything said about 'Ninco hop' and the habitual ritual some folks think need to be done to cure it. I've never had 'Ninco hop' in any Ninco car unless I remove the magnets and the car bounces on the spring of the front guideblade. If you do have any 'hop' then remove the spring and fit a spacer ring. End of problem.

In this model, the cockpit tray holds the motor 100% firm and the rear axle is 100% secure. You'll also find that the chassis is one of the strongest Ninco has made, so it needs no strengthening. So gluing or screwing down or reinforcing anything in this car is a 100% waste of time and effort.

These cars need:

1. Small hubs front and back. The earlier models have this but for some stupid reason Ninco slapped on large hubs on thier last 6 releases. They lift the car up so far that it is unstable and there's hardly magnet downforce. Ninco small hubs and tyres are fine, or you could try NSR Ultragrip tyres. Your aim is to lower the car and increase rear tyre grip. If you can do this then its the best way to get these cars running well.

2. Get rid of the large 'boxer' NC2 or NC5 can motor. This car is far more stable (especially around corners) with an ordinary 'Mabuchi' motor in it. You will have to buy an adaptor if you have an NC2 or NC5 chassis. The heavy weight of a large can motor just makes the rear end slide all over the place. I've tried numerous 'boxer' style motors and this model is truly awkward with every single one.

3. Front axle slop? Fit spacers or remove the axle and fit one 1mm shorter. The hubs simply pull off

4. And even after all this, you may still have a fairly ordinary performing car.

Of course, you could sell it on Ebay before you srart to depreciate it with alterations. Some people pay lots for these things. Then buy a SlotIt McLaren. THEN you'd be happy.
 

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Stoner, I can't take all any of the credit for the hot glue fix, one of our club guys discovered it by acccident one night a few years back when we had only just set up our club, when he accidentally ran some over a front axle.... was about to clean it off and found it wasn't stuck to the axle itself and ... "shoot, thats a more stable front end" the rest as they say ... is history.


Dave -
Here's a short video I shot, showing a few of these on my non-magnet braided wood track. Just to give you some better idea of what I am talking about. It is 4.8 metres long, 19.2 metres running length on most lanes.
It uses a gloss surface - very resilient water-based clear "floor clear" designed for wooden floors - over acrylic paint, woollen roller finish, and works with soft rubber tyres or silicon equally well. - We run our tracks "clean" locally, not rubbered up, so we have no issues switching between rubber and silicon tyres. Only provisio on such surfaces is, if you are in a dusty environment, they need regular cleaning.


You could run your track with non-mag cars like this, or have an amount of magnet with your magna-braid track to make the lane changing in particular less disruptive on the cars. - What does Dave of BLST for track rails and magnets?

I plan to run a pack of these as house cars on the new oXigen track. I can mess with the supply voltage to the rails a fair bit to tame them for lesser skilled drivers, or pump it up to as high as 15V for experienced guys. - oXigen components are pretty robust and can live with a range of voltages.
We have a bunch of guys in Auckland running an oXigen system at 15V permanantly, on Slot.it cars with red-bell motors and race magnets.
So they are pulling around 1.5 amps at peak per car, 22 watts at 15V.

If you look at the pictures I posted earlier, you'll see an unbraced one with standard NC-1 motor - that's fine at that power, but by the time they get to NC-5, the twisting forces of the motor induces chassis twist, and they judder a bit, even with the slop in the rear axle to bush fixed. With a higher powered motor like the NSR 25K King, pretty much undrivable at pace unless the chassis is longitudinally braced, not to mention that if you fix the grip with any combination of loose body for tipping load in corners, decent glued and trued tyres and removing the slop present in the standard 2.48mm mechanics axle, they
a) Hop like a hare in the gunner's sights
Will eventually start throwing the motor clean out of the mounts if not glued or screwed in place.
c) I have popped more than one axle bush out because it was the only thing left to give when the torque/twisting forces on an unbraced chassis, so they need glueing in too.
d) when that lot is fixed, the dark blue one you saw was outrunning Slot.it and NSR cars on one of our local track last year, and they were all shod with the same 2 ranges of tyres - Slot.it S2s, lathe trued, or NSR Ultlra-grips similarly prepared. Best times on that 52 foot track with 5 corners were around 3.65 seconds ie, a bit over 14 feet [3.7 metres] a second, which isn't sleepy for non mag racing.

They aren't a sophisticated design, but they can be made to go very well. That blue one needs work right now, hasn't had any maintenance in recent months, and I notice it has started shedding tyre rubber when I picked it up to video it tonight, just ripping it off the outside edges.
[ the problem of having 200 runners in my stable, and loaning cars to newer club members every week, plus "proxy" cars to build for race series here and overseas. Never enough time.....

The boxer motors like NC-5 being centre mounted, I don't feel they unduely affect front/rear balance.

Unless the track surface and conditions are known, weight addition or subtraction cannot be ascertained, but the motor doesn't cause the car to slide - lack of trueness, poor front/rear balance, poor vertical weight, and general lack of tyre adhesion cause a car to slide.

I think the front axle slop you are concerned about is not lateral movement, it is the ability of the axle to move up and down vertically, which is not a good, stable platform. So any of the suggestions in the earlier post could be used. - I confess I use hot-glue a lot, not because it is the best method, but because it is "cheap, quick and dirty"

I forgot to include some things
1) Make sure you use soft braids, set as low as practical for any track, I don't have any problem with spring guides, I think guys on plastic track suffer more as the bumps between sections set up a bit of bounce on those guide springs. You can try the car with the spring in, and without the spring, it's a good learning exercise.
2) Run your body screws "quite" loose - up to 2 turns backed off of tight - you may need to go to longer screws if your cars have the short 4mm ones.
3) Screwneck's post reminded me, I have sometimes added a couple of grams weight right forward - "Blu-tac" is useful for this, as it can be moulded, and amounts added and removed quickly to help stabilise the nose if you feel it is still "flighty" at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi all

Sorry have not responded before one of those days today

Screwneck-Slotcrazy

Thanks for your comments really appreciated

Opinion varies on the ninco hop issue but i guess it cant do any harm to rienforce just to be on the safe side
Appreciate what you and slotcrazy are saying about the cars need to be lowered i looked at two of the cars i have here the Day Off has smaller wheels the franck muller bigger as you described. The difference is about 1mm the first car 2mm between chassis and track the second 3mm
i checked the height on a slot it car and this appears about 1.5mm an nsr is nearer 1mm .What is the best height for these cars ?
I like the idea of adjustable front axle holders link by slotcrazy i guess to lower the car i would need to heighten the axle slightly and use the smaller size wheels is this right ?
The motor seems another issue which splits opinion ! Sscrewneck what size/make of motor do you think best ? Slotcrazy same question i guess
if i change the nc2
Another question regarding the lowering chassis The guide on this seems quite thick are there alternatives to this
Screwneck I do take your point about selling them on ebay and buying a slot it ! I do have quite a few slot it Mclarens but as i said at the start of this thread i really like the look of the nincos and just want to see whats possible

Slotcrazy thanks for the video and links and all of the advice been brilliant once again think im getting close now


Once again many thanks

Dave
 

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Hi There,

Track is routed :

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best

david
 
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